The Antidesktop
by jeff covey, in Themes - Sat, Oct 12th 2002 00:00 PDT
Over the years, I've used 4Dwm, Afterstep, Blackbox, Enlightenment,
FVWM, Icewm, KWM, PWM, Sawfish, Window Maker, and wmx, and played with
many other window managers. I used Window Maker more than any other,
but generally would only stick with one for a couple of months before
getting restless and trying something else. Finally, though, I
settled on a setup I've used exclusively for over a year. It's
decidedly not for everyone, but may be of interest to some.
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directly.
Here's a screenshot of what I see after I type "startx":
Thrilling, no?
Let's go into what you're not seeing behind this simple facade.
The Components
screen
screen has long
won my vote for "Most Undercelebrated Unix Tool". I'm amazed at the
number of people I've met at LUG meetings who have never heard of it.
I'll quote the description of it from our listing:
Screen is a full-screen window manager that multiplexes a physical
terminal between several processes, typically interactive shells. Each
virtual terminal provides the functions of the DEC VT100 terminal and,
in addition, several control functions from the ANSI X3.64 (ISO 6429)
and ISO 2022 standards (e.g., insert/delete line and support for
multiple character sets).
When you log onto a system and run screen, a window is
created with a shell in it. You can create any number of other
windows and switch back-and-forth between them. screen stays out of
your way unless you hit its control key (^A by default). "^A c"
creates a new window. "^A n" and "^A p" move to the next and previous
windows. "^A w" gives a list of the current windows and shows which
you're in. "^A 3" moves to the third window, etc. ("^A a" gives a
literal "^A".)
This is especially useful if, for example, you need to log onto your
university's system and perform multiple tasks there. You can read
mail in one window, chat on IRC in another, edit your project in
other, compile it in another, etc.
Perhaps the best feature of screen is that it lets you detach and
reattach sessions. When it's time to leave home, you can hit "^A d"
to detach the session, and log out. All your processes will continue
to run. Drive to school, log in, type screen -D -R, and your
session will reattach itself, and you can continue right where you
left off. Log out and go to class, and reattach there.
Go over to a friend's house, and reattach there. You can have your
text mode "desktop" running all the time, with everything laid out as
you like it, and connect to it from anywhere, as GUI people do with
VNC.
You can set your desktop up in your ~/.screenrc so you don't have to
start all your applications every time. Mine looks like this:
startup_message off
screen -M -t root 0 su -
screen -t mail 1 mutt
screen -t emacs 2 xemacs -nw -e gnuserv-start
screen -t irc 3 epic4
screen -t yahoo 4 centericq
screen -t mixer 5 aumix
screen 6
screen 7
screen 8
screen 9
screen 10
select 1
If I don't already have a screen session running, all I have to do is
type screen, and my 11 windows are created for me. I'm
dropped into the first one so I can read my mail while my other apps
start in the background, log me onto IRC, etc. Depending on your
needs, you could have other windows tailing log files (and monitoring
them to alert you to activity (-M)), logging you on to other
servers, etc.
screen has a huge feature set. It can log windows to files,
can split a session between multiple terminals, will let you copy and
paste between windows using only the keyboard, and is rumored to be
surprisingly effective against the heartbreak of psoriasis. Just take
a look at its man page or info documentation to get an idea of its
scope.
ratpoison
Now that you understand screen, we can talk about the window manager
which unobtrusively displays itself in the screenshot above,
ratpoison.
ratpoison is:
... a simple window manager with no large library dependencies, no
fancy graphics, no window decorations, and no rodent dependence. It is
largely modeled after GNU Screen, which has done wonders in the
virtual terminal market. All interaction with the window manager is
done through keystrokes. ratpoison has a prefix map to minimize the
key clobbering that cripples EMACS and other quality pieces of
software. All windows are maximized and kept maximized to avoid
wasting precious screen space.
As screen handles text windows, ratpoison handles GUI windows. Each
window is the same size, the size of the screen. There are no title
bars, no minimize buttons, none of the clutter that's needed by a
mouse. Mozilla
looks like this:
You can do fancier split screens to make several applications visible
at once:
, but I don't bother. I want each program to have all the room it
can.
ratpoison stays out of the way until you hit its control key (I set it
to ^O because "a" and "o" are next to each other in my keyboard
layout). "^O w" gives me a list of the current windows. "^O 1" takes
me to the first one. "^O ^O" switches me back to the one I used most
recently. "^O n" and "^O p" take me to the next and previous ones.
"^O k" closes the current window. "^O !" brings up a prompt in which
I can type a command to start a program; I find "^O ! cbb" to be much faster
than hunting through menus.
As you would expect, ratpoison is lightning fast and perfectly stable.
Applications
My main application is a gnome-terminal running screen. I use
gnome-terminal because it's easily configured to use good fonts, a
bright color scheme, and no scrollbar, menu bar, etc. Looking at it
over my shoulder, you'd think I was running at the console instead of
in X.
I put as much of my activity as possible into this single
gnome-terminal. Often, I'm running nothing but this, Mozilla, and
maybe XMMS (which I
only use because I'm too lazy to find a console MP3 player which deals
well with my lousy fixed-rate sound card).
I do almost everything in console apps. EPIC4 and centericq handle
IRC and instant messaging. mutt handles my mail. The amazing w3m is used for most of
my freshmeat work, as it's infinitely better-suited than Mozilla for
dealing with text on the Web (typing in Mozilla can't compare with the
ability to dump text from a textbox into a real editor for
processing). Both use
XEmacs[1]
through gnuclient. gnuclient allows me to call the already-running
XEmacs on screen 2 to edit some text. Using the same XEmacs session
over and over again leads to several good features. For example, the
kill and yank ring continues across sessions. I can kill text from a
text box in w3m, switch to mutt, start a message, and yank the text
into the message.
Advantages
Why have I settled into this system, and what benefits do I gain from
it? I take advantage of the best of both the X and console worlds. I
get the graphical abilities of X without all the clutter that usually
attends it, and I can work much more quickly and with less strain on
my hands because I don't have to use a mouse.
Simplicity
At any moment, my screen is devoted to only one thing. As I type
this, all I see is XEmacs showing this buffer. Since I can only see
what I'm working on at this moment, I have to make the choice to go to
something else. I can't be distracted by text in an X-Chat window behind
this one, or by buddies appearing and disappearing in the Gaim window in the
corner. If someone messages me, centericq will play a sound; I don't
need to watch IM obsessively. If I'm distracted, it's because my mind
is distracted by a thought of something else, not because of a flash
of color in the periphery of my vision.
Since there's nothing to tweak, I'm not tempted to endlessly fidget
with my windows and reconfigure my window manager, moving this window
a bit to the left and that one to desktop two instead of four. I
don't get bored with a theme and spend 45 minutes looking for a new
one.
Clarity
Every application takes up the entire screen, and I can use large
fonts to reduce eye strain. Mozilla has the full width and height of
my screen, and if I have to scroll horizontally, it's the site
author's fault, not mine.
Flexibility
When I'm home, I do all my work on my laptop, which runs as an
xterminal connected to my more powerful desktop machine. I like being
able to move the laptop from place to place. The desktop's monitor is
only used for watching DVDs.
Since all my processes are running on the desktop, if something goes
wrong with my laptop, I can reattach my session on the desktop and go
on working. Since I don't rely exclusively on GUI applications, if
something goes wrong that prevents me from running X, if I'm placed in
an environment in which I can't run X, or if I want to persist in my
untested but heartfelt belief that not running X saves battery life, I
can be happy with the console.
When I leave home and run my laptop independently, I use the same X
system on it. Before leaving, I turn off mail delivery and run a
script that rsyncs /var/www and /home/jeff to the laptop. I detach
and go. If, while I'm on the road, I want to check the status of a
job I left running at home, I can ssh back and reattach my home
session. When I get home again, I turn off mail delivery on the
laptop, rsync back to the desktop, reattach the desktop session, and
push on.
Stability
Given the choice, ratpoison would run forever. I don't worry about my
window manager locking up, crashing X, or displaying random strange
behavior.
More importantly, it doesn't even matter if X does take a dive. All
my applications are still running in screen. I can hit ctrl-alt-bksp,
run startx again, type screen -D -R in
gnome-terminal, and the session will reattach. I can go on like
nothing happened.
In fact, it doesn't matter if the whole computer shuts down.
Sometimes, I don't notice that the cat has knocked the laptop's power
cable loose again[2], and suddenly
see it suspending to disk. No problem; I bring it back up, reconnect
it to the server, and reattach the screen session that's happily
continued to run there all the time.
If a tree falls on the server, my processes will go down with it, but
I can't help that. There has to be some point of failure, eventually.
Obscurity
I won't call it genuine security that would protect from a malicious
attack, but there is an element of obscurity to the system that can
protect from a friend who wants to play a practical joke when I walk
away. I keep xlock on "^O x", but even if I step away from the
keyboard without locking it, someone stepping in tends to be confused
by a screen that shows no "close" buttons and a keyboard set to
Dvorak.
Conclusions
The desktop metaphor has its place. It may even be essential for
people who don't want to understand what's happening beneath their
computer's GUI surface. If you do know how to use your computer
without pointing and clicking, consider that you have the option to
dispense with the metaphor, and may find yourself more productive if
you do. You can have the ability to run all the graphical
applications you need without the clutter of a root window full of
icons hidden under layer upon layer of windows.
This isn't for everyone, even among the digerati. An artist may have
a genuine need to have several windows of images in view at once. For
someone like myself who works in text, I find it an excellent system.
If something like this would be a good fit for you, I hope you've
found this description useful.
In closing, I'll admit to a certain impish glee in putting this
article in the themes area of our articles section. In a sense, it
belongs because it's a description of how I "theme" my desktop. In a
more legitimate sense, it should be thrown out because there is no
"desktop" in my system, and nothing to theme. Try to troll gently in
the comments.
Footnotes
- Ummm... Why not just Emacs, if you're
not using its GUI mode anyway? I used to use VM to read mail,
and there was a time when the then-current version of VM would run on
XEmacs but not Emacs. I switched, enjoyed the color support on
the console (not a feature of Emacs at the time), and just never
got around to switching back.
- I don't have a comment on this; I just
don't like having only one footnote.[3]
- There, that's better.
Author's bio:
When he's not cracking the whip on the freshmeat staff or trying to
figure what contributors are trying to tell him, you'll find jeff
covey hanging around http://pobox.com/~jeff.covey/.
T-Shirts and Fame!
We're eager to find people interested in writing articles on
software-related topics. We're flexible on length, style, and
topic, so long as you know what you're talking about and back up
your opinions with facts. Anyone who writes an article gets a
t-shirt from ThinkGeek
in addition to 15 minutes of fame. If you think you'd like to try
your hand at it, let jeff.covey@freshmeat.net
know what you'd like to write about.
[Comments are disabled]
Comments
[»]
Very Nice
by Mikey Coulson - Nov 10th 2007 19:29:18
Nice article, Jeff!
I have been using a frighteningly similar setup for about three
years.
Ratpoison has truly stood the test of time as a viable window manager
for mouse-less computing. I have found that an Emacs and Ratpoison
X11 session suits all my needs as an alternative desktop environment
and window manager combination. Using the keyboard exclusively,
without a doubt, is considerably faster than having to frequently
reach for the mouse.
Unfortunately, on those occasions where I find myself working with
any
other setup (on my wife's or parents' computer), I am decidedly
miserable. I fumble about with the mouse and inadvertently type
prefix keys to no avail. To me, that is a tribute to how a setup
like
this can become second nature despite an initial counterintuitive
learning curve.
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Your antiwindowmanager artical
by mikes1 - Aug 22nd 2007 11:30:12
Hello- this is interesting and different indeed. You didn't come from a
"Windows" background since you were a VM user. I think IBM got
everything off of VM about a year ago. I'm not so sure that was such a
great idea !? I used to say Windows was an OS for the illiterate. Work is
work, and play is play. I still think the working world works best with
menu's, but i do not own a business so who cares. I had to fire up NetTerm
on my laptop to eyeball the VT100 emulation. I don't remember it being a
DEC thing, and memory is getting worse! Nice artical, so how did you get
the WiFi console connection from laptop to desktop? Tanx, mike
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hate that mouse
by Agent Ultra - Apr 8th 2007 07:44:43
I use gnome + Ion3 for my desktop.
It does have a float environment for those pesky apps like The Gimp. It
also has a system for windows that are asking for attention -- a simple
text notification appears in the top of my current frame and I can jump to
the requesting window with Alt-k-k... handy for using Gaim. I can take
advantage of it's features, but keep it off screen and get to the message
when I'm good and ready.
I just wish there were fewer apps that required a mouse. I don't mind
using a GTK app at all if it has sensible hot-keys; but there are things
like text-selection that are rather difficult in apps like Firefox.
... speaking of firefox, I also use the "Mouseless Browsing"
add-on. Very handy.
If there were a modern gui browser with vim-like key bindings I'd be in
heaven.
Anyway... it's been a rather natural progression to Ion3 for me. I started
using the mouse for most things on a GUI wm... until I found the hot-keys
to do things faster. Then I'd find most of the hot-keys and find it much
faster than using the mouse; but would still be forced to use it for some
tasks. Then I had enough and wanted something that used the keyboard
exclusively.
It's much easier to keep your hands in one place on your desk. It's also
faster to type what you want rather than hunt and peck with a pointer. I
loathe to think of all the times I mistakenly performed some action
because I "missed" with my mouse and clicked something else by
accident. Almost never happens with Ion3 (except maybe when managing
frames on-the-fly. You can split horizontally or vertically; but I haven't
figured out how to do more complex operations like splitting two windows in
a frame into two frames).
Either way; good article. I hope to see development in this area continue.
I'm certainly a fan of a good interface. The desktop metaphor is just too
cumbersome and slow after a certain critical level of understanding is
reached by the user.
-- There is a time and a place for thought; sometimes a solution simply requires action.
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Re: hate that mouse
by wbxv - Apr 21st 2007 03:27:12
> If there were a modern gui browser with
> vim-like key bindings I'd be in heaven.
Hi, have you tried vimperator (http://vimperator.mozdev.net/)?
vimperator is a firefox extension that makes it behave like vim. It is
modal, and allows most of the key bindings. I tried it a few weeks ago,
and was able to do all my normal browsing without touching the mouse. I
ended up removing the extension after a few days though, as I'm just too
used to mouse browsing now.
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Desktop update?
by Doug Luce - Apr 2nd 2006 23:01:19
It would be cool to get an update from Jeff to see what he's running these
days. I'm sure screen is still part of the kit, but has ratpoison stood
the test of time?
I also used centericq as well as IRC (via irssi, truly the IRC client of
the gods). I found, however, that it was difficult to keep track of IM
traffic, as it was in another window from the IRC window where i would
focus most of my attention. Centericq, like many full-screen programs,
didn't work well with screen's notify-on-action, as it would update itself
randomly, even when nobody was talking.
The solution to my problems ended up being Bitlbee. This is a wonderful
program, whose goal is simple: translate IM to IRC. It's a little more
involved than centericq, as you must run it as a server. However, you can
use any number of pre-setup public servers (one of which I run: irc.net).
bitlbee has done a great job of matching many IRC commands to their IM
equivalents. You can even send files!
So Jeff, what are you using these days?
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Re: Desktop update?
by jeff covey - Apr 5th 2006 13:22:43
After ratpoison, I used ion2 for a while, then
larswm. I currently
use wmii. I like it,
and it's an extremely fast-moving target. The wmii mailing list has a
lot of good (often long and heated) discussion about what a window
manager should do, and some interesting ideas are being worked into the
next version.
I also use irssi and bitlbee. And vim.
Thanks for your interest!
Sincerely,
Jeff
-- vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh'er n trrx.
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Many thank
by Tony - Feb 2nd 2006 16:09:14
Stand in good stead
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Can see the attraction but...
by BozMo - Jun 14th 2004 06:55:20
it is just too hard to do for most of us so we have to grin and bear it.
I also think something it would be good for kids to introduce them to a
bare computing environment without so much clutter they never feel in
command.
BozMo
-- BozMo
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ICE Window Manager + GNU Screen + full screen
by Raven Morris - Mar 7th 2003 11:39:52
"At any moment, my screen is devoted to only one thing. As I type
this, all I see is XEmacs showing this buffer. Since I can only see what
I'm working on at this moment, I have to make the choice to go to
something else. I can't be distracted by text in an X-Chat window behind
this one, or by buddies appearing and disappearing in the Gaim window in
the corner. If someone messages me, centericq will play a sound; I don't
need to watch IM obsessively. If I'm distracted, it's because my mind is
distracted by a thought of something else, not because of a flash of color
in the periphery of my vision."
I just wanted to say that I agree COMPLETELY. I find distractions very
annoying, as I am easily distracted.
I use ICE Window Manager, and in it's new versions it has a fabulous full
screen feature, which I use on all apps except for ones that need to be
small (e.g. XMMS and The GIMP), all others are given their own desktop ...
much in the same way that GNU Screen works. I also live in screen, I often
have dozens of windows open in my screen session, and I attach it at work
and friends places constantly (I use screen -x so it is open in both
places at the same time). In XFree86 I use a full screen aterm with
transparency and changing wallpapers from edenpics.com, cycling every 40
seconds. I find it very relaxing.
Most of my important work is done in screen, and for everything else I
have a desktop for it ... works fabulously. And when someone else sits
down at my computer to try something out I am showing them, I just
un-fullscreen my apps and they can click on the desktop icons to switch
programs, so on and so forth.
I have tried to leave ICE Window Manager a few times, but nothing I have
tried comes close to it's feature set and EXTREME speed (doesn't take any
time to load, even on a slow PC, and only 700KB to 2.5MB RAM, with all the
GUI it has).
Oh, and I use the aeteria theme, one damn fine theme.
-- "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana." -- Groucho Marx
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Re: ICE Window Manager + GNU Screen + full screen
by Matthew Stewart-Smith - Apr 4th 2006 06:15:55
I normally use IceWM and love the full screen feature! Here's a few
other things I've set it up to do:
10 workspaces, and each number key on the numeric keypad is set to
switch to one of them. This way it is easy to remember which screen a
certain program is running in and switch to it quickly. It compliments
the full screen feature well, and puts the numeric keypad to good use -
since I never use it for its intended purpose! (This one can also be done
in Window Maker or almost any WM with multiple workspaces / screens.)
Alt + numeric keypad keys to switch workspaces and move the currently
active window. Much easier than selecting "Move To..." from a menu with a
mouse, and then trying to remember which workspace you actually wanted to
move it to.
Alt + drag to move a window. Makes it easy to move a window out of the
way, even if the title bar is off the screen.
Enter to maximize a window, and Alt-Enter to switch to/from full
screen. This means a bit less mucking around with the mouse for programs
that I normally run full screen (e.g. Firefox), and it's easy to quickly
maximize a file load / save dialog box to see more files at once.
Pause / Break to close a window. Maybe this is a little bit risky, but
this key is far enough out of the way that so far I haven't pressed it by
accident.
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Not for everyone, but...
by Devin de Gruyl - Nov 8th 2002 13:37:45
After reading about this setup, I was intrigued enough to give it a try for
myself. Overall I think it's a good option if you work primarily with
console applications (although in that case, why you'd want to use X at
all is something of an open question) or if you like to have your apps
full-screen.
There are a few things about ratpoison that I don't particularly care for,
unfortunately. One is that EVERY window that can be resized, is
automatically set to full-screen - even transient ones such as GTK file
selectors. The GIMP is rendered all but unusuable, because you have to
switch to the full-screen toolbox (which looks as awkward as it sounds).
And even applications that can normally be moved without need of a window
manager's titlebar, such as XMMS, are forever stuck dead-center in the
screen.
On the other hand, if you don't normally use GUI apps such as these, this
setup can be just the no-frills desktop you're looking for. The
combination of screen, ratpoison, and gnome-terminal gives the console fan
the economy sized, mouse-enabled workspace he or she has been craving,
without having to dicker with messy SVGATextMode and gpm configurations.
And since it is running under X, it isn't necessary to sacrifice the
ability to use GUI apps when the need or mood strikes. In that respect,
it's a best-of-both-worlds approach.
Although I'm typing this right now using Galeon, most of my work in this
setup is done using the console apps running under screen. I use mutt for
mail reading, jstar for text editing (I'm *really* getting to love the
WordStar command set!), epic4 for IRC chatting, links for browsing (though
I'm thinking of trying w3m just to see what the fuss is about), TinyMUCK
for those rare times when my travels take me to MU* territory, mpg123 for
tunes, slrn for Usenet, and sc (a nice console spreadsheet program) for
various mathematical chores. Graphically, Galeon is my GUI browser of
choice, and I also use OpenOffice, gqview, pan, and evolution for various
purposes - all of which work very well as fullscreen apps. However, when
I have to use something like The GIMP, it's back into Fluxbox I go; the
way ratpoison handles GIMPing is just plain not for me.
This combination certainly isn't for everyone, but if you find yourself
using xterms more often than not for certain tasks, you may find it a fun
change of pace. I consider myself a confirmed "GUI junkie," but
this setup may convert me to the Dark Side yet... ;^)
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Re: Not for everyone, but...
by Devin de Gruyl - Nov 8th 2002 13:42:59
> TinyMUCK for those rare times
> when my travels take me to MU*
> territory,
Oops. I meant to say TinyFugue, not TinyMUCK (which is a Windows MU*
client). Sorry 'bout that... I'm always getting the two program names
mixed up.
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Re: Not for everyone, but...
by MadProf - Dec 5th 2002 13:29:01
> However, when I have to use something
> like The GIMP, it's back into Fluxbox I
> go; the way ratpoison handles GIMPing is
> just plain not for me.
how about making a few basic shellscripts which contain
something like:
start Xnest (or gdmXnest);
export DISPLAY=Xnest number;
fluxbox;
gimp;
sort of thing, and then gimp will, or should, apear to start up correctly
within a fluxbox (or other light windowmanager) session within a "screen"
or "fullscreen-window".
Ralph
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Re: Not for everyone, but...
by Joe Crayne - Aug 12th 2005 15:36:29
> There are a few things about ratpoison
> that I don't particularly care for,
> unfortunately. One is that EVERY window
> that can be resized, is automatically
> set to full-screen - even transient ones
> such as GTK file selectors. The GIMP is
> rendered all but unusuable, because you
> have to switch to the full-screen
> toolbox (which looks as awkward as it
> sounds). And even applications that can
> normally be moved without need of a
> window manager's titlebar, such as XMMS,
> are forever stuck dead-center in the
> screen.
>
I switched to ion from ratopoison for the reasons
you talk about. I was able to configure a ratpoison
interface to it. It has a floating window workspace
available for aps like Gimp. The only think I haven't
worked out yet in my ratpoison emulation is how to
send the escape character (Ctrl-A A type semantics).
Before I switched to ion, i used the exact setup as
the author which i had independently discovered as well.
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eschewing X altogether
by Scorify - Oct 31st 2002 15:47:42
I never knew so many people thought the same way as I do about desktops
until reading this article and its comments! screen sounds like a
must-have app.
My current setup eschews X altogether. I use svgatextmode to set my
text-mode linux console to be 180 lines by 80 columns. And I modify
inittab to spawn 15 terminals.
At that point ALT-F1 to ALT-F12 switch quickly between all my terminals.
I also use ALT-left and ALT-right to get to 13-15 (which are used for
less-often accessed apps).
w3m for web browsing, groovycd for cd's and splay for mp3's (mpg123 has
problems with some mp3's). emacs for editing. mutella for gnutella p2p.
lftp for ftp.
copy-and-paste is handled with gpm.
I've had the same experience of switching from desktop to desktop, with
WindowMaker and BlackBox being the most favored. But I'd say this
configuration has been my most productive.
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Ratpoison && detaching X11 like 'screen does
by Mike Hanulec - Oct 21st 2002 11:38:11
Hi..
I read this Parg:
"Since all my processes are running on the desktop, if something goes
wrong with my laptop, I can reattach my session on the desktop and go on
working. Since I don't rely exclusively on GUI applications, if something
goes wrong that prevents me from running X, if I'm placed in an
environment in which I can't run X, or if I want to persist in my untested
but heartfelt belief that not running X saves battery life, I can be happy
with the console."
but I don't think Ratpoison can do this.... as something else, like
'xmove', is required. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
-Mike
GNU Screen user since '98
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[»]
Re: Ratpoison && detaching X11 like 'screen does
by peter mutsaers - Nov 9th 2002 03:23:12
> but I don't think Ratpoison can do
> this.... as something else, like
> 'xmove', is required. Please correct me
> if I'm wrong.
>
Ratpoison, nor any window manager can do this. X clients connect directly
to the server (i.e. your screen). If the screen detaches, all clients
loose their connection thus are terminated.
The (only) solution is to use a special X server. vnc is one such server,
that offers a remotely controllable desktop on one side (for your screen)
and an X server on the other side. Thus if your screen detaches, the X
server with all its X clients continues to run. See tightvnc.
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[»]
One size does not fit all
by foobarfoo - Oct 18th 2002 20:37:01
ratpoison looks like a neat toy... and if, like the author of this article,
you're mostly running non-gui apps, it's fine
i love screen and have used it for many years, but i would never limit
myself to it's capabilities. ratpoison sounds like screen with a little
extra gui, and for me that's just not nearly enough.
allow me to sing the praises of other, more full featured window managers
and gui apps..
first, i like having gui apps opened on the screen at the same time, and
seeing them all... for example, i use gkrellm, which gives me cpu/disk/net
stats at a glance (no keystrokes necessary)... my volume widget is there,
as are my most frequently used apps in a button bar... as with ratpoison,
there\'s no need to hunt through menus to get at any of these functions,
but there\'s also no need to type any commands whatsoever... they're all
just a click away
having a pager on the screen also makes it obvious which apps are where,
which is a great improvement on the screen convention of cycling through
screens to get to your app, or having to use cumbersome naming and
keystroke combinations... screen is all fine and good for a few apps, but
when you exceed that number it starts to get a bit unwieldy... which is
one of the reasons i also have a couple of terminals open... most of my
work is done in the normal, green, user terminal... with the red terminal
reserved for root actions. i have no need for these terminals to be the
width of my full 1600x1200 screen... i'd rather use the extra real estate
to have two or more apps on the screen at the same time, which usually
means gvim + 2 terminals (and the gkrellm, buttonbar, volume, pager and
icon box which are sticky on each screen, but those take up minimum real
estate)
opera takes up nearly a full window, just as you have with ratpoison, as i
like to use tabs instead of free-floating windows, but i don't give up the
rest of my windowing features to do this
in short, ratpoison may be alright as a lightweight window manager, but it
comes up lacking for a power user... now vnc seems to be a much better
screen compliment, as it allows you to detach and reattach your window
session just as you do with screen itself... and i might just be taking a
look at it or tight vnc next
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[»]
evilwm - another good minimal wm
by Wayne Myers - Oct 18th 2002 17:41:58
There's also evilwm
which, for some, may well be that 1-pixel border no-nonsense
keyboard-controlled wm you are looking for.
I don't know why Ciaran called it evilwm. He should have called it
goodwm. :)
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[»]
UI Design with Blinders
by Gre.g - Oct 17th 2002 22:03:55
what is it with all these "minimalist" window managers that
aren't any different from other windowmanagers? Ratpoison
is the closest I've seen to what I would want, but i don't want
to actually lose the ability to use multiple windows at the
same time and place them where I want. I just want to lose all
the extraneous bs that every wm these days insists on
plastering all over the screen. Title bars, 3d animated borders
to drag, and on and on. All I want is a modern
windowmanager that supports modern features like gnome
and kde but has a theme that's close to my current twm
setup. No title bars, 1 pixel borders that I can drag to move
or resize. Even the minimalist themes for e, sawfish, etc, all
seem to be nothing more than playing with colours and
background tiles and not actually rethinking whether all this
crud is really necessary.
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[»]
Re: UI Design with Blinders
by Mary Poppins - Oct 18th 2002 08:43:11
% Even the minimalist themes
> for e, sawfish, etc, all
> seem to be nothing more than playing
> with colours and
> background tiles and not actually
> rethinking whether all this
> crud is really necessary.
I run sawfish with all frames, decorations, etc. turned off, and move with
alt-left-drag and resize with alt-right-drag. alt-middle brings up the WM
menu for anything else (mostly the rare force-close op).
;
; resize and move a la WindowMaker
;
(unbind-keys window-keymap "W-Button3-Click1")
(bind-keys window-keymap "W-Button3-Move"
'resize-window-interactively)
;
; remove all window decoration
;
(add-frame-style 'no_frames (lambda (a b) nil-frame))
(custom-set-variable 'default-frame-style 'no_frames)
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Re: UI Design with Blinders
by Istvan Kokai - Dec 9th 2002 05:28:45
> to drag, and on and on. All I want is a
> modern
> windowmanager that supports modern
> features like gnome
> setup. No title bars, 1 pixel borders
> that I can drag to move
> or resize. Even the minimalist themes
> for e, sawfish, etc, all
> seem to be nothing more than playing
> with colours and
> background tiles and not actually
> rethinking whether all this
> crud is really necessary.
e.g. the k10k theme for enlightenment (could be found on deviantart) have
a border type called small, that is what you need a pixel width border
with that you can move, resize even shade your windows, and every e them
has the borderless option where with the help of the Alt + Mouse buttons
you can have the menu, the resize and the move options.
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[»]
Re: UI Design with Blinders
by Bjørn Hansen - Feb 4th 2004 13:31:19
Have you tried openbox 3? It seems usable for a full range of preferences,
from super-minamalist, to a full blown gnome/kde session. Plus it was
designed to be stardards compliant first, and then the other stuff.
> what is it with all these
> "minimalist" window managers
> that
> aren't any different from other
> windowmanagers? Ratpoison
> is the closest I've seen to what I would
> want, but i don't want
> to actually lose the ability to use
> multiple windows at the
> same time and place them where I want. I
> just want to lose all
> the extraneous bs that every wm these
> days insists on
> plastering all over the screen. Title
> bars, 3d animated borders
> to drag, and on and on. All I want is a
> modern
> windowmanager that supports modern
> features like gnome
> and kde but has a theme that's close to
> my current twm
> setup. No title bars, 1 pixel borders
> that I can drag to move
> or resize. Even the minimalist themes
> for e, sawfish, etc, all
> seem to be nothing more than playing
> with colours and
> background tiles and not actually
> rethinking whether all this
> crud is really necessary.
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[»]
Re: UI Design with Blinders
by Taladar - Feb 23rd 2005 12:21:20
You should be able to do this with a bit of work with Fvwm.
For a good introduction to what Fvwm can do see
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=80517
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[»]
Add my vote for screen
by ndiff - Oct 16th 2002 16:47:19
I've been running most of my world inside
screen for a few years now. Even with
its warts, the advantages are a win.
Generally I have two windows: a screen
terminal and a tabbed browser. Sometimes
I forego the graphical browser and use
lynx instead. With emacs, pine, mutt, etc
one hardly needs a heavy GUI for most daily
tasks.
Ratpoison looks like it deserves some
consideration. It seems no matter how fast
of a system I get the latest KDE/Gnome install
is there to make startup run slower than my
previous CPU.
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Re: Add my vote for screen
by D-Man - Dec 20th 2006 06:21:39
You may add my vote to yours.
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konsole full-screen mode
by Reid Ellis - Oct 16th 2002 13:51:19
My monitor looks like yours a lot of the time because I run Konsole with
mutliple terminals, running full-screen. I love the
shift-left-arrow/shift-right-arrow keys for switching, and can set custom
backgrounds, etc. Of course this lacks screen's session-handling
functionality, so I am going to investigate that. I hope the keys can be
reconfigured, though. I don't want to learn yet another set of keys for
switching contexts.
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Re: konsole full-screen mode
by Mary Poppins - Oct 18th 2002 08:49:11
> Of course this lacks
> screen's session-handling functionality,
> so I am going to investigate that. I
> hope the keys can be reconfigured,
> though. I don't want to learn yet
> another set of keys for switching
> contexts.
screen's session-handling is a super-fantastic feature, especially if you
do your job both at home and at the office. I run a screen session on my
NetBSD box in my cube, and when I'm at home I can ssh in and connect to
it, and I'm right where I left off! No VPN software needed, no more
forgetting what it was that I was up to.
You needn't worry about screen's configurability. It's very configurable,
though not as much as, say, sawfish or emacs, which embed script
interpreters. If you just want to set custom bindings, you can certainly
do that. I have alt-number set to jump to the corresponding screen, to
match galeon and gaim's tab-switching bindings. It's super-fantastic.
:)
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Re: konsole full-screen mode
by Mary Poppins - Oct 18th 2002 16:00:58
> I have alt-number
> set to jump to the corresponding screen,
> to match galeon and gaim's tab-switching
> bindings. It's super-fantastic. :)
>
The .screenrc snippet is as follows, with <alt-char> replaced by the
literal character my terminal interprets from that keyboard combo:
# ^T is the escape
bindkey "\024" mapdefault
bindkey "alt-1" select 1
bindkey "alt-2" select 2
bindkey "alt-3" select 3
bindkey "alt-4" select 4
bindkey "alt-5" select 5
bindkey "alt-6" select 6
bindkey "alt-7" select 7
bindkey "alt-8" select 8
bindkey "alt-9" select 9
bindkey "alt-0" select 0
# alt '-'
bindkey "alt--" other
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Re: konsole full-screen mode
by Mary Poppins - Oct 19th 2002 05:16:01
>
> % I have alt-number
> % set to jump to the corresponding
> screen,
> % to match galeon and gaim's
> tab-switching
> % bindings. It's super-fantastic. :)
> %
I got the chars in the .screenrc using vim, and pressing cntrl-v alt-1
while in insert mode.
I believe the following octal codes will also work:
bindkey "\024" mapdefault
bindkey "\261" select 1
bindkey "\262" select 2
bindkey "\263" select 3
bindkey "\264" select 4
bindkey "\265" select 5
bindkey "\266" select 6
bindkey "\267" select 7
bindkey "\270" select 8
bindkey "\271" select 9
bindkey "\260" select 0
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[»]
Coincidence
by Leonardo Boiko - Oct 16th 2002 13:45:24
I just discovered ratpoison some days ago, and I'm very happy with it.
I have some screenshots (if the server is down try again later).This
one shows no windows (root-tail is running thought). This
one is a split screen, but just to show off; most of the time I just
run everything maximized.
See also micq. I loved it too, and a line
receivescript ratpoison -c "echo incoming icq message"
works like a charm.
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Re: Coincidence
by Leonardo Boiko - Oct 18th 2002 15:33:45
Sorry for the off-topic post, but I just want to thank you all for the two most
interesting days of my home server :-) . Until now kamaitachi uploaded
more than 150M with these .pngs, for 10 different browsers in at least 17
OSes, including RISC OS, Irix and BeOS.
Watching the logs in root-tail was a geeky fun time!
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[»]
hell yeah
by ynnd - Oct 16th 2002 13:19:16
not tried ratpoison but true enough:
--> screen rocks <--
live your life in a shell
(btw, i'm currently using phpwebhosting.com for my shell = highly
recommended).
good article!
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Thanks for the write-up! Dream setup :)
by Aleksey Tsalolikhin - Oct 16th 2002 12:56:16
Wow, you're running my dream setup.
I've been moving towards this for a while; am running most of my apps
inside screen, and have been procrastinating trying out ratpoison for
about a month now. This write-up does it for me, I'm switching to
ratpoison this week!
Thanks!
-at
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[»]
Random thought on minimalizm, distraction and visual interface
by Sasha Vasko - Oct 16th 2002 12:32:28
Minimalistic approach is cool, but unfortuantely is not suitable for many
activities, for example GUI software development :) Also this particualr
article is not a very good illustration of minimalizm, taking on accound
the number and size of buttons in mozilla and xmms. Get rid of them
all!
No Distraction is dubious advantage of above approach, since when IRC and
IM are hidden, one tend to drop out of conversation, miss important ppl,
etc. Sound indication does not help, since you tend to ignore them,
burried in your current activity. When window is always present on the
side of screen, its much easier to stay in sync. Not so when you burry it
under other windows or even move it on the second head. Also, ditching
computers entirely and going with paper is the only effective way to avoid
distraction :)
GUI is not supposed to be simple. It was created mainly to fit as many
things as possible on screen. If you start going about having single app
on screen at a time, you could just as well stay in text mode.
Consider this: You have lots of gauges on your car's dashboard. Having
single app on screen at a time would be similar to having only one gauge
on your dashboard at a time.
Now about not having to mess around with config and themes. If you'd move
to a barrell, you would not have to worry about decorating your living
room.
Most non-minimalistic window managers are complex due to the fact that
they attempt to give user flexibility to make interface as convinient as
possible - not to put lots of bloat on screen. Most of them features come
from real needs of real users, and ditching them on the side, would mean
ditching many years of GUI evolution and painfull efforts to make
computers as convinient and easy to use as possible.
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Re: Random thought on minimalizm, distraction and visual interface
by Flatman - Oct 16th 2002 13:32:15
%You don't get it this guy is tired of IM and BS internet "friends" when
your working no distractions is a PLUS.
> Minimalistic approach is cool, but
> unfortuantely is not suitable for many
> activities, for example GUI software
> development :) Also this particualr
> article is not a very good illustration
> of minimalizm, taking on accound the
> number and size of buttons in mozilla
> and xmms. Get rid of them all!
>
> No Distraction is dubious advantage of
> above approach, since when IRC and IM
> are hidden, one tend to drop out of
> conversation, miss important ppl, etc.
> Sound indication does not help, since
> you tend to ignore them, burried in your
> current activity. When window is always
> present on the side of screen, its much
> easier to stay in sync. Not so when you
> burry it under other windows or even
> move it on the second head. Also,
> ditching computers entirely and going
> with paper is the only effective way to
> avoid distraction :)
>
> GUI is not supposed to be simple. It was
> created mainly to fit as many things as
> possible on screen. If you start going
> about having single app on screen at a
> time, you could just as well stay in
> text mode.
>
> Consider this: You have lots of gauges
> on your car's dashboard. Having single
> app on screen at a time would be similar
> to having only one gauge on your
> dashboard at a time.
>
> Now about not having to mess around with
> config and themes. If you'd move to a
> barrell, you would not have to worry
> about decorating your living room.
>
> Most non-minimalistic window managers
> are complex due to the fact that they
> attempt to give user flexibility to make
> interface as convinient as possible -
> not to put lots of bloat on screen. Most
> of them features come from real needs
> of real users, and ditching them on the
> side, would mean ditching many years of
> GUI evolution and painfull efforts to
> make computers as convinient and easy to
> use as possible.
>
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[»]
I've owned single-gauge cars
by Medievalist - Oct 16th 2002 16:57:29
Consider this: You have lots of gauges on your car's dashboard. Having
single app on screen at a time would be similar to having only one gauge
on your dashboard at a time.
I have owned several cars with a single gauge. My first VW didn't even
have a fuel level indicator, which presented no problems in practice - I
never ran out of gas once, thanks to the UI design of the vehicle. The
Prius gas/electric hybrid I drive now has an LCD screen in the dash, and
displays almost all information in a "gauge at a time" mode (exceptions
are fuel and speed, but I wouldn't mind if these also had to be selected
for viewing).
Your criticisms of the original post are based on your own aesthetics,
which is fine as long as you realize that they are not universal. What is
"good" for you is not "good" to me - and I do *not* want any sort of
pop-ups or IRC junk on my desk, ever!
The screen/ratpoison combination is not really about minimalism in an
artistic or aesthetic sense, it's about minimalism in a functional or
architectural sense. So stripping buttons out of Mozilla, for instance,
is probably not something the author would want to spend time on.
-- --Charlie
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[»]
I don't get it.
by Rabid Nelson - Oct 14th 2002 17:48:19
Ratpoision seems TOO minimalistic. I do everything you do, except with a
gnome/sawfish combination. I set up virtual desktops with four terminals
side-by-side so I can see several processes going at once, and I still
have room to fit in everybuddy and xmms w/ playlist. Having a full screen
for something like everybuddy seems rather absurd to me. The only thing I
want to run fullscreen is galeon, which I do. I have windowmaker style key
bindings to switch between virtual desktops, plus alt+tab bound so I can
pretty do whatever I want fast enough. Ratpoison seems less powerful and
more like a burden to me.
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[»]
Very good article
by Vadim - Oct 14th 2002 03:19:37
Minimalistic approach is cool. And also helps to stay sharp. The only thing
I don't like about "minimalistic" window managers is that most
of the time they come with Emacs like key bindings (I guess, following
screen) which for some people (i.g. me) are quite cumbersome.
On the other hand fancy titlebars and borders plus nice backgrounds are
cool too. Sometimes.
Anyway. Thank you very much for this article.
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[»]
centericq + screen
by jammer - Oct 13th 2002 19:12:09
I've been running into problems using centericq w/ screen. Every now and
then centericq seems to send some bogus escape codes that puts screen into
a high-bit mode. I have to ^L in centericq to fix it. Anyone else run in
to this?
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Re: centericq + screen
by Vulture - Oct 22nd 2002 07:36:52
> I've been running into problems using
> centericq w/ screen. Every now and then
> centericq seems to send some bogus
> escape codes that puts screen into a
> high-bit mode. I have to ^L in
> centericq to fix it. Anyone else run in
> to this?
Hi, I've run into that as well, I didn't realise what it was, so thanks
for the information (and the quick fix ^L). Have you found any further
information on this issue? is it just screen<>centericq related?
[reply]
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Re: centericq + screen
by Victor - Nov 7th 2003 16:10:02
Try using:
screen centericq -a
>
> % I've been running into problems using
> % centericq w/ screen. Every now and
> then
> % centericq seems to send some bogus
> % escape codes that puts screen into a
> % high-bit mode. I have to ^L in
> % centericq to fix it. Anyone else run
> in
> % to this?
>
>
> Hi, I've run into that as well, I didn't
> realise what it was, so thanks for the
> information (and the quick fix ^L). Have
> you found any further information on
> this issue? is it just screen<>centericq
> related?
>
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[»]
screen for X?
by Vashek - Oct 12th 2002 21:47:01
From the start of the article, I hoped it would answer my dearest question,
but in the end it did not. So here it is, maybe someone knows the
answer:
screen is a great tool for the terminal. But is there a similar tool for X
- i.e., one that would let detach from an X session and reattach later,
even if on a different host? Ideally, it should also be possible to have
multiple X terminals attached to a single X session at the same time.
Multiplexing multiple X sessions on one physical terminal would be just
icing on the cake.
I've had several people suggest VNC when I asked this question before, but
everytime I tried, VNC was much too slow for regular work even on a
dedicated LAN. I guess grabbing and transferring screen rectangle bitmaps
just can't beat (or even match) the native X protocol.
Come on, it can't be that hard! I don't know the X protocol (I guess I
should have a look - anyone have a URL handy?), but I suppose that most of
the time, it would be nothing but forwarding the connection - sort of a
proxy server. Of course, there's the problem of reconnecting the clients
back to the new server - replay any initialization, redraw the windows...
And one would have to simulate the server's presence all the time so that
the clients don't die. And you can't currently change the resolution and
color depth on the fly, so they would have to match. And a number of other
problems, sure. But I'm sure it can be done! Am I the only one who longs
for this?
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[»]
Re: screen for X?
by antrik - Oct 13th 2002 21:30:52
A proxy for X *does* exist, but don't ask me about the details.
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[»]
Re: screen for X?
by Steve Kemp - Oct 16th 2002 11:29:54
> A proxy for X *does* exist, but don't ask me about the details.
It does indeed. It's called XMove and
it's a simple apt-get away if you're running Debian.
--
Steve
---
www.steve.org.uk
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Re: screen for X?
by foobarfoo - Oct 19th 2002 11:41:36
>
> % A proxy for X *does* exist, but don't
> ask me about the details.
>
> It does indeed. It's called XMove
> and it's a simple apt-get away if you're
> running Debian.
>
I have debian. I apt-got xmove. When I ran it everything seemed ok:
$ xmove
Implementing MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 user authentication
XMove 2.0 ready.
Then I tried to start up a simple xterm:
$ export DISPLAY=localhost:1
$ xterm
xmove spits out:
Unable to create connection to server at :0.0.
Is the server dead?
Is the server name correct?
Well, I certainly am running an X server at :0.0, as my normal
applications connect there by default.
So what's the deal? Has anyone actually gotten this to work? Is there
some magic that I'm missing?
Many thanks!
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[»]
Re: screen for X?
by Foo Baloo - Jul 24th 2003 12:08:10
By default, Debian's Xf86 config attaches to a unix domain socket
(not a tcp socket) -- look at /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc, remove
"-nolisten tcp", and bounce X.
Make sure you understand the security ramifications of opening this
port.
>
> %
> % % A proxy for X *does* exist, but
> don't
> % ask me about the details.
> %
> % It does indeed. It's called
> XMove
> % and it's a simple apt-get away if
> you're
> % running Debian.
> %
>
>
> I have debian. I apt-got xmove. When I
> ran it everything seemed ok:
> $ xmove
> Implementing MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 user
> authentication
> XMove 2.0 ready.
>
> Then I tried to start up a simple
> xterm:
> $ export DISPLAY=localhost:1
> $ xterm
>
> xmove spits out:
> Unable to create connection to server at
> :0.0.
> Is the server dead?
> Is the server name correct?
>
> Well, I certainly am running an X server
> at :0.0, as my normal applications
> connect there by default.
>
> So what's the deal? Has anyone actually
> gotten this to work? Is there some
> magic that I'm missing?
>
> Many thanks!
[reply]
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[»]
Re: screen for X?
by kjd - Oct 13th 2002 23:14:22
> I've had several people suggest VNC when
> I asked this question before, but
> everytime I tried, VNC was much too slow
> for regular work even on a dedicated
> LAN.
Rather than making a direct TCP connection to the VNC server, forward your
connection through SSH (make sure compression is enabled (-C in OpenSSH)).
This greatly speeds up performance for me.
An alternate VNC distribution, TightVNC, may be what you need. It
attempts to use more efficient transmission methods than vanilla VNC.
[reply]
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[»]
Re: screen for X?
by Vashek - Apr 10th 2004 19:04:31
> screen is a great tool for the terminal.
> But is there a similar tool for X -
> i.e., one that would let detach from an
> X session and reattach later, even if on
> a different host? Ideally, it should
For the benefit of myself later in time and possibly others, here are
links to two projects that I've randomly stumbled upon:
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~zandy/guievict/
http://www.cs.brown.edu/software/xmx/
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[»]
Interesting setup
by Matthew Mondor - Oct 12th 2002 21:07:01
I find it great that you introduced screen to some people out there who
didn't know it existed. After trying most setups as well, I am generally
now running icewm with aterm, in which I run screen. In various screens I
run vim (coding alot), epic4, lynx, links and mutt. The yamm icewm theme
seems to be the one I'm using the most. I also keep a few sh screen
windows, one usually uid 0... What is great about this setup is that
although it looks better in X, it works as efficiently when it is not
available, and remotely as well.
[reply]
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[»]
amiwm
by Schneelocke - Oct 12th 2002 18:20:33
Screen is great, no doubt, and ratpoison is nice, too, but my favourite
setup is amiwm with two high-res monitors in a multihead setup. I usually
keep a browser open on the right screen, and a couple of xterms on the
left one; up to 6 fit on the screen without any overlap at all, and there
still is enough space for gkrellm, gqmpeg and a few other tools;
everything else I use usually runs in an xterm, anyway.
Once you get used to amiwm's look and feel, this is really a great setup,
and I cannot recommend it enough to anyone who wants a fast and lean wm
and a desktop where you can keep all things that matter visible at once -
something I have found to be a huge advantage in day-to-day work.
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Screen is blinking great...
by Tristan 'Minty' Colgate - Oct 12th 2002 13:55:03
Thanks for the reminder, I had'nt used screen in a while and youve just
reminded how damned handy it was, for anyone stuck on a large shared
system at a uni screen can be a real godsend. You can use it to solve all
kinds of problems aswell, iirc it has some stuff for sharing consoles with
other people, and the detach feature is truly great (it was very handy for
running dedicated quake server). Its nice to see that they have the
splitvt stuff built in now too.
Great article, incidentally for those of you, like me, who arent so hot
with remeber keyboard shortcuts.... ctrl-a ? is your friend.
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Forget X altogether...
by DarkStalker - Oct 12th 2002 13:19:56
I tried using screen in the past and it was nice. I liked it a lot, but I
found something that sort of falls between X and using screen and that is
twin. Twin is a console window manager but more along the lines of X
window managers than screen. Look it up here on Freshmeat. I have mutt
running as a rolled up window checking my e-mail, centericq, elinks
(enhanced links which is even better), BitchX running in another for IRC
and a few others. I might do something along these lines once I have X
installed on a decent computer though.
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Re: Forget X altogether...
by pmantick - Feb 17th 2004 16:03:49
> I tried using screen in the past and it
> was nice. I liked it a lot, but I found
> something that sort of falls between X
> and using screen and that is twin. Twin
> is a console window manager but more
> along the lines of X window managers
> than screen. Look it up here on
> Freshmeat. I have mutt running as a
> rolled up window checking my e-mail,
> centericq, elinks (enhanced links which
> is even better), BitchX running in
> another for IRC and a few others. I
> might do something along these lines
> once I have X installed on a decent
> computer though.
Screen is great, no doubt, and ratpoison is nice, too, but my favourite ebooks is amiwm with two high-res
monitors in a multihead setup. I usually keep a browser open on the right
screen, and a couple of xterms on the left one; up to 6 fit on the screen
without any overlap at all, and there still is enough space for gkrellm,
gqmpeg and a few other tools; everything else I use usually runs in an
xterm, anyway.
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Umm...
by Milosz Derezynski - Oct 12th 2002 12:32:45
I like this alot, but probably would/will never use a
setup like this. BTW... what's that XMMS skin?
:P
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Re: Umm...
by wouter - Oct 12th 2002 21:12:38
> I like this alot, but probably
> would/will never use a
> setup like this. BTW... what's that XMMS
> skin?
> :P
That looks like Orange Juice, by Nathan Baxter. It's based on an excellent
Enlightenment theme he made. You can find it here, on freshmeat, I think,
or on his
homepage.
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I've been looking for something like this
by Nick Speare - Oct 12th 2002 11:58:34
Thanks for the article Jeff. I have been looking for something like this
for a long time; I used Blackbox for a while but didn't find it
"minimalist" enough.
Thanks again
p.s. Links puts w3m to shame :)
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Re: I've been looking for something like this
by antrik - Oct 13th 2002 21:25:28
> p.s. Links puts w3m to shame :)
Oh, want to flame? Links has more features (JavaScript), but w3m is a
much
nicer program in terms of look&feel. Plus, the Links developers are not
very
cooperative, to put it mildly... I wouldn't switch for money.
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Very interesting read
by p9ing - Oct 12th 2002 11:16:08
Think I might try it seeing as I've been using multi-gnome-terminal, which
is similar in functionality in that you can have multiple windows in a
window, except that it is in a windowed (not necessarily desktopped)
environment. I do get distracted by all the different themes out there
although I hardly try any of them.
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*term sux :(
by A'rpi/ESP-team - Oct 12th 2002 10:31:34
Hey, what a nice article! I've done the same, trying tons of various window
managers, currently using massively reconfigured mwm... i'll try ratpoison
and teh others someone suggested in comment #3, asap.
Anyway, my No.1 problem with X that there are no working xterm
alternatives. I like to use key combos like ctrl+pgdown, shift+F7 etc. and
having working DEL and Backspace not even mentioning Ctrl+HOME/END. While
on console they work as expected (using RAW mode keyboard access) they
don't in xterm and other clones i've tried.
Actually teh ermcap system don't even allow to define these keys, so it
isn't a bug of these *term apps but the architecture in general.
The other problem is cut'n'paste between console and X apps...
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Re: *term sux :(
by Jan Keirse - Oct 12th 2002 12:52:34
> Hey, what a nice article! I've done the
> same, trying tons of various window
> managers, currently using massively
> reconfigured mwm... i'll try ratpoison
> and teh others someone suggested in
> comment #3, asap.
Heh, it looks very nice to me too. I mainly like to do everything with
keycodes, the windows are not really bad for me, in the contrary, I don't
think I would be able to live without them (that's why I use X, to run
xterms, and gaim, I love gaim, I've used centericq, it's really good for
sending IM's in the real sence, but not really for chatting, if you ask
me) Anyone knows a wm in wich you can do everything with keycodes and
still have windows in the normal way?
> Anyway, my No.1 problem with X that
> there are no working xterm alternatives.
> I like to use key combos like
> ctrl+pgdown, shift+F7 etc. and having
> working DEL and Backspace not even
> mentioning Ctrl+HOME/END. While on
> console they work as expected (using RAW
> mode keyboard access) they don't in
> xterm and other clones i've tried.
That's really weird, it works in every terminal I've used, going from
xterm, over Eterm and rxvt through powershell. Probably you've got
something configured wrong.
> Actually teh ermcap system don't even
> allow to define these keys, so it isn't
> a bug of these *term apps but the
> architecture in general.
>
> The other problem is cut'n'paste between
> console and X apps...
Copy: select with the mouse past with the middle button
cut: impossible I think (if you meant the real console, without X, you
have to use GPM, but I don't know if this works between console and X)
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Re: *term sux :(
by jeff covey - Oct 14th 2002 15:32:16
> I've used centericq, it's really good for sending IM's in the real
> sence, but not really for chatting, if you ask me
You probably didn't turn "Chat messaging mode" on.
> Anyone knows a wm in wich you can do everything with keycodes and
> still have windows in the normal way?
Someone in my LUG does this with a 1.x version of AfterStep.
-- vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh'er n trrx.
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Re: *term sux :(
by Jan Keirse - Oct 15th 2002 03:47:49
>
> % I've used centericq, it's really good
> for sending IM's in the real
> % sence, but not really for chatting, if
> you ask me
>
>
>
>
> You probably didn't turn "Chat messaging
> mode" on.
>
>
>
>
> % Anyone knows a wm in wich you can do
> everything with keycodes and
> % still have windows in the normal way?
>
>
>
>
> Someone in my LUG does this with a 1.x
> version of AfterStep.
>
heh, It was not available in my version of centericq, just installed a new
one, great improvement!
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Re: *term sux :(
by davisfactor - Dec 21st 2002 02:00:59
>
> vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh'er n trrx.
>
heh, I can read it :)
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Re: *term sux :(
by traindrv_ - Oct 22nd 2002 07:42:07
> Anyway, my No.1 problem with X that
> there are no working xterm alternatives.
> I like to use key combos like
> ctrl+pgdown, shift+F7 etc. and having
> working DEL and Backspace not even
> mentioning Ctrl+HOME/END. While on
> console they work as expected (using RAW
> mode keyboard access) they don't in
> xterm and other clones i've tried.
> Actually teh ermcap system don't even
> allow to define these keys, so it isn't
> a bug of these *term apps but the
> architecture in general.
One thing that has fixed that for me was adding this line to my .Xdefaults
file:
xterm*backspacekey: ^H
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X's
by Techie Man - Feb 9th 2005 12:22:31
I've had the same experience as you've had.
-- Chat
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What's wrong with gnome?
by reduz - Oct 12th 2002 10:23:37
I love the applets! Those had to be one of the coolest ideas ever!
I still have one problem, terminals! I have a button in the bar that
launches a terminal, so, since most of the time i'm lazy and i dont want
to search for a terminal I go and push the button to get me a fresh
terminal. This is great, until i see that i have 20 terminals alltogether
and i have to start choosing which ones should be closed. Anyone has any
idea on how to overcome this? I also dont like programs like powershell
because i usually close the window instead of closing a tab.
reduz
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Re: What's wrong with gnome?
by Brian Ronald - Oct 12th 2002 11:40:24
> I still have one problem, terminals! I
> have a button in the bar that launches a
> terminal, so, since most of the time i'm
> lazy and i dont want to search for a
> terminal I go and push the button to get
> me a fresh terminal. This is great,
> until i see that i have 20 terminals
> alltogether and i have to start choosing
> which ones should be closed. Anyone has
> any idea on how to overcome this?
Simply get in the habit of hitting Ctrl-D after you
run your commands, instead of switching back to
your graphical apps.
-- I didn't want to hurt you, but you're pretty when
you cry
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Re: What's wrong with gnome?
by Andres Castillo - Oct 12th 2002 15:27:39
> I love the applets! Those had to be one
> of the coolest ideas ever!
>
> I still have one problem, terminals! I
> have a button in the bar that launches a
> terminal, so, since most of the time i'm
> lazy and i dont want to search for a
> terminal I go and push the button to get
> me a fresh terminal. This is great,
> until i see that i have 20 terminals
> alltogether and i have to start choosing
> which ones should be closed. Anyone has
> any idea on how to overcome this? I also
> dont like programs like powershell
> because i usually close the window
> instead of closing a tab.
>
> reduz
Just use the multi-gnome-terminal
(http://multignometerm.sourceforge.net/index.shtml)
It's basically like tabbed browsing only for consoles. Which btw is a real
time saver both on the web and in the consoles.
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Re: What's wrong with gnome?
by Matthew Mondor - Oct 12th 2002 21:11:19
>
> I still have one problem, terminals! I
> have a button in the bar that launches a
> terminal, so, since most of the time i'm
> lazy and i dont want to search for a
> terminal I go and push the button to get
> me a fresh terminal. This is great,
> until i see that i have 20 terminals
> alltogether and i have to start choosing
> which ones should be closed. Anyone has
> any idea on how to overcome this? I also
> dont like programs like powershell
> because i usually close the window
> instead of closing a tab.
>
> reduz
screen is your friend, only a single terminal window is required.
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Re: What's wrong with gnome?
by wouter - Oct 12th 2002 21:17:14
> I love the applets! Those had to be one
> of the coolest ideas ever!
>
> I still have one problem, terminals! I
> have a button in the bar that launches a
> terminal, so, since most of the time i'm
> lazy and i dont want to search for a
> terminal I go and push the button to get
> me a fresh terminal. This is great,
> until i see that i have 20 terminals
> alltogether and i have to start choosing
> which ones should be closed. Anyone has
> any idea on how to overcome this? I also
> dont like programs like powershell
> because i usually close the window
> instead of closing a tab.
>
> reduz
Use MGT (multi-gnome-terminal). It has tabs, you can assign commands to
them (ssh, su, ...) or split them; and you also have a setting to ask you
if you really want to close the window. That saved me a couple of times,
because I was so used to having many terms open I always closed it without
remembering the other thousand tabs.
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Re: What's wrong with gnome?
by Jan Keirse - Oct 13th 2002 03:46:39
> I love the applets! Those had to be one
> of the coolest ideas ever!
>
> I still have one problem, terminals! I
> have a button in the bar that launches a
> terminal, so, since most of the time i'm
> lazy and i dont want to search for a
> terminal I go and push the button to get
> me a fresh terminal. This is great,
> until i see that i have 20 terminals
> alltogether and i have to start choosing
> which ones should be closed. Anyone has
> any idea on how to overcome this? I also
> dont like programs like powershell
> because i usually close the window
> instead of closing a tab.
>
> reduz
Heh, that's very easy, code on the terminal ;-) Just bind the closing
button to a proc that closes the tab rather than the window, I know it's
not very hard to do this in TK, but I don't know about gnome. That's what
opensource is for ;-)
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Re: What's wrong with gnome?
by Fabrício Matheus Gonçalves - Oct 13th 2002 05:02:44
If you are using gnome:
Try add the "Run button" ou the Mini-Commander
applet to the panel.
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Re: What's wrong with gnome?
by Perlitude - Oct 16th 2002 14:45:31
> This is great, until i see that i have 20 terminals
> alltogether and i have to start choosing
> which ones should be closed. Anyone has
> any idea on how to overcome this?
if you use bash, add to your .bashrc a:
export TMOUT=300
this will cause bash to quit after 5 minutes if you dont use it (and
close the term windows too i guess)....
i hope this helps
http://freddo.netfirms.com/
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You aren't fully evolved yet ;)
by dmw - Oct 12th 2002 08:46:44
Hey Jeff,
Your setup sounds quite familiar to mine, however I have xterm configured
with a massive scroll buffer and no scrollbars (as opposed to memory hog
gnome-terminal).
Most of my stuff is done in the console too, with one exception - vim.
gvim built to use GTK, with all it's scrollbars and menus, etc. removed is
a really neat editor. Add a few bindings and you have transparent
X11<->vim cut-and-paste.
I've run out of steam before finishing this comment. Oh well :). My vim
configs (and others) can be found at
<http://botanicus.net/dw/conf.html>.
-- -dw
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Re: You aren't fully evolved yet ;)
by Geir Torstein Kristiansen - Oct 16th 2002 12:44:56
> Hey Jeff,
> Your setup sounds quite familiar to
> mine, however I have xterm configured
> with a massive scroll buffer and no
> scrollbars (as opposed to memory hog
> gnome-terminal).
You know this, yet you dont know that:
gtk 13550 0.3 0.7 2820 1464 pts/1 S 18:30 0:00
rxvt
gtk 13546 0.2 1.1 4524 2292 pts/1 S 18:29 0:00
xterm
What a shame :)
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Re: You aren't fully evolved yet ;)
by Dodger402 - Oct 16th 2002 14:10:59
>
> You know this, yet you dont know that:
>
> gtk 13550 0.3 0.7 2820 1464 pts/1 S 18:30 0:00 rxvt
> gtk 13546 0.2 1.1 4524 2292 pts/1 S 18:29 0:00 xterm
>
> What a shame :)
And it's a shame that you don't know that any sane xterm isn't linked to
gtk:
~/src/www$ ldd `which xterm`
libfreetype.so.6 => /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6
(0x4001e000)
libXaw.so.7 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXaw.so.7
(0x4005c000)
libXmu.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXmu.so.6
(0x400ae000)
libXt.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
(0x400c3000)
libSM.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6
(0x4010d000)
libICE.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6
(0x40116000)
libXpm.so.4 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.so.4
(0x4012c000)
libXext.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6
(0x4013b000)
libX11.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6
(0x40149000)
libncurses.so.5 => /lib/libncurses.so.5
(0x40224000)
libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40262000)
/lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2
(0x40000000)
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Re: You aren't fully evolved yet ;)
by Geir Torstein Kristiansen - Oct 16th 2002 18:16:49
> And it's a shame that you don't know
> that any sane xterm isn't linked to
> gtk:
I never said anything about xterm being linked
to gtk. That was the output from ps and "gtk"
happens to be my username.
I just wanted to point out that rxvt uses less
ram than xterm since less ram usage seemed to be
your goal.
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Re: You aren't fully evolved yet ;)
by Agent - May 21st 2004 09:44:16
>
> % And it's a shame that you don't know
> % that any sane xterm isn't linked to
> % gtk:
>
>
> I never said anything about xterm being
> linked
> to gtk. That was the output from ps and
> "gtk"
> happens to be my username.
>
> I just wanted to point out that rxvt
> uses less
> ram than xterm since less ram usage
> seemed to be
> your goal.
I always thought that xterm used more RAM then rxvt.... That's
interesting.
-- Real Estate - Rentals
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Screen is ace
by Q - Oct 12th 2002 02:38:35
I run debugging computational jobs on ~10 dual procs (production is on a
larger cluster) so I have a screen session running on each with two terms.
Then I have one overall screen which has email etc and contains all of the
sessions on the remote machines. I have uptimes as long as the machines ~6
months -- reattaching from home and the office, on holiday etc. With a
large history I can look back at the output from all my jobs for the last
couple of weeks and with its status-line monitors I can ensure the load
average on all the machines stays close to 2.0.
Screen is my effective screen manager. I run emacs (windowless) editting
my code and can go home and return to the exact same spot with my kill
ring and last modifications intact.
Q.
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Re: Screen is ace
by Shawn Rutledge - Oct 16th 2002 14:54:04
> weeks and with its status-line monitors
> I can ensure the load average on all the
> machines stays close to 2.0.
Can you explain how you do this?
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Re: Screen is ace
by Q - Oct 16th 2002 15:37:18
Sure. Look at the "hardstatus" capability. I use the following line in my
.screenrc_controller:
hardstatus alwayslastline " %d.%m.%y %c \033[42;30m %w \033[m"
which gives the Day.Month.Year Time in blue [sorendition 02 40], and then
the name of each "window" in green which I set to the name of the machine
with eg:
screen -t lnx21 1 krlogin -t lnx21 screen -D -R -c ~/.screenrc2
which puts window number 1 on the machine called "lnx21", gives it that
name, and runs screen with a different configuration .screenrc2. Actually
it will re-attach to any previously running screen in case my hosting
controller screen dies, and/or create a new screen if one is not found.
In that file I have two "windows", so I can run two jobs on the dual proc,
with the following status:
hardstatus alwayslastline "%l %n\033[m"
sorendition 06 41
which puts the load average and the window number in magenta with a blue
background. The load monitor is 1,5,15 minutes load average so is not all
that responsive but good enough for my needs. I recommend using a bold
prompt with machine name and current directory which helps a lot with
seeing/remembering what is going on. I use /bin/tcsh:
set prompt="%B[%n@%m %c03]%b% "
set ellipsis
Running a screen inside a screen requires lots of ctrl-a's!!
I hope that this helps. If you have any problems or want a screenshot let
me know.
Q.
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Re: Screen is ace
by cos - Oct 16th 2002 20:17:24
> Running a screen inside a screen requires lots of ctrl-a's!!
it doesn't have to. try using different escape keys in the different
screen sessions (eg. C-z, C-v, ...), for instance.
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Re: Screen is ace
by Drawings - Aug 27th 2004 15:56:39
> I run debugging computational jobs on
> ~10 dual procs (production is on a
> larger cluster) so I have a screen
> session running on each with two terms.
> Then I have one overall screen which has
> email etc and contains all of the
> sessions on the remote machines. I have
> uptimes as long as the machines ~6
> months -- reattaching from home and the
> office, on holiday etc. With a large
> history I can look back at the output
> from all my jobs for the last couple of
> weeks and with its status-line monitors
> I can ensure the load average on all the
> machines stays close to 2.0.
>
> Screen is my effective screen manager.
> I run emacs (windowless) editting my
> code and can go home and return to the
> exact same spot with my kill ring and
> last modifications intact.
>
Also i |