 |
Is Free Software for Windows Good?
by Steve Killen, in Editorials - Sat, Dec 18th 1999 23:59 UTC
We at freshmeat regularly receive submissions of Windows software for
inclusion in the appindex. Sometimes it's something that obviously
doesn't belong here, like a commercially-licensed closed-sourced word
processor. Other times, it's not as clear whether we should include
it or not, as when we get a Windows port of a GNU utility or a piece
of software that helps dual-booters access the data stored on their
ext2 partitions when they're booted into Windows. In today's
editorial, Steve Killen discusses the possibilities of free software
in an unfree world. We look forward to hearing your own ideas on the
subject and on whether such software belongs on freshmeat.
Copyright notice: All reader-contributed material on freshmeat.net
is the property and responsibility of its author; for reprint rights, please contact the author
directly.
Update from jeff covey:
I'll post my own thoughts on the issues soon, but first scoop asked me
to clear up some confusion people are having about this editorial. No
one has any intentions of turning freshmeat into winfiles.com.
Windows users already have plenty of places they can go to find
software. You will not be seeing announcements of new versions of
Excel popping up between sendmail and gcc.
With the Free Software/Open Source movement well under way in the
Linux community, we have transformed from crusaders and vigilantes to
explorers and conquistadors. Where we were once aggressively
defending a scorned corner of "enterprise computing,'' we now stand by
our achievements and the newfound recognition (and investors and
developers) they bring. At this point, it's time to think about where
to go from here -- to begin to focus not inward, but outward. If free
software can propel the GNU/Linux community to stardom in just 8
years, what could it do to an existing, well-established platform such
as Microsoft Windows?
The Free Software Foundation, headed by Richard Stallman, supports the idea
that software should be free, which entails the following:
- The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
- The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your
needs (freedom 1).
- The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
- The freedom to improve the program, and release your
improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits. (freedom 3).
These four freedoms define the core of the GNU GPL (General Public
License), under which a good part of software for Linux is licensed
today. They are also in extreme contradiction with the fundamental
precepts of Microsoft's EULA and other similar software licenses,
which state that the software is not the user's, but rather belongs to
the company that wrote it and can be revoked at any time if the terms
of the licensing are not obeyed. GPLed software is also pretty much
guaranteed to include or have availability of its source code, whereas
closed software isn't, and for the most part doesn't. As a result of
the closed and restrictive nature of Microsoft Windows, the software
developed for it is released in binary-only format, and the user is
generally required to pay for it either immediately on receipt or
after a trial period (for software known as shareware). With Windows's
rise in popularity/market share, the shareware market also grew. In
order to get people to pay for the binary-only shareware, the coders
released their utilities with built-in nag boxes, missing
functionality, a time period to use the software before it
automatically disabled itself, or any combination of the three.
What if, however, instead of binary-only releases, nag boxes, and
sometimes poorly functional, overpriced software, Windows users could
also download (and even compile) their favorite utilities, games, and
applications? What if they could take advantage of the free software
development cycle, added to the familiarity of the Windows platform?
Being a classic download junkie when I was a Windows user, I would
have been ecstatic to get software that I didn't have to ignore
nag-boxes to use, or to avoid that guilty feeling about downloading
cracks for utilities that I used all the time on my system, or to get
a full-featured, quality word processor on which to write my papers
that didn't cost $100. Free software is a good thing, on any
platform. In Windows, it would balance the cost of owning the
operating system by providing the software that makes it useful under
terms that essentially make it free. For programmers, it would provide
nearly limitless resources of reference and help, in the form of other
programmers and the work they've done laid out in the open. For the
everyday user, it would open the door to focusing on getting work
done, rather than worrying about whether they have registered and paid
for the commonest utilities on their computers. For the
administrators, it would mean Christmas bonuses for everyone, because
the per-seat license fees that are in common practice would just
disappear.
It's not an immediately viable solution, however. In order to attract
Windows programmers to release their code as free software, they need
a reason. After all, personal changes in attitude only happen when
they're wanted. One good carrot to get the cart moving would be the
existence of a good, free, visual development environment for Windows,
in the same vein as the incredibly expensive Microsoft Visual C++ or
Borland Turbo C/C++. If tools to do the job are totally free in the
Free Software community, why shouldn't they be free to encourage the
development of free software in the closed community as well? If it
costs nothing but time to get the job done under Windows, the
programmers will be more inclined to offer their products as tools,
rather than with the intent of making money, like in the GNU/Linux
community.
I'm hoping that this becomes a reality. With the DoJ in position to
take Microsoft to the can, a really good way to promote the
eventuality of this would be to push for a full and complete
documentation of the APIs Microsoft uses, if not a total opening of
the Windows and friends' source. It has the possibility of making
Windows a useful tool, rather than a market-driven wallet-vacuum.
Steve Killen is attending UMBC as a student of Computer Science
and a recent Linux user of only one year, and is freshmeat's night-owl
maintainer.
residentgeek@freshmeat.net
http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~skille1/
T-Shirts and Fame!
We're eager to find people interested in writing editorials on
software-related topics. We're flexible on length, style, and topic,
so long as you know what you're talking about and back up your
opinions with facts. Anyone who writes an editorial gets a freshmeat
t-shirt from ThinkGeek in
addition to 15 minutes of fame. If you think you'd like to try your
hand at it, let jeff.covey@freshmeat.net
know what you'd like to write about.
[Comments are disabled]
Comments
[»]
Bill Gates
by Sam - Apr 5th 2007 13:05:31
He used to have a dream. "Cheap and affordable home computing."
Where's that gone? Vista Ultimate - £250! Free software's great,
thats why I like Linux, and even paying a small amount <£30 is
fine. But Microsoft have gone too far. I mean £250 thats way too
mych. Please email me if you have a view on the subject
alienwear@hotmail.co.uk .
[reply]
[top]
[»]
addition
by syntax - Jan 26th 2005 01:28:41
I just wanted to add that my previous post was in no way meant to insult or
flame anyone or anything, but simly to bring across the sheer level of
frustration that most Windows uers have when face with the choice of
staying with M$ or diving over to Linux.
I am more than willing, ready, and able, to toss Windows and every M$
anything off my hard drive. The problem is, at least at the moment, unless
a maracle happens, I can't.
I simply do not have the knowhow for working around complex command line
interefaces, and following complex steps that might work or might not, not
only depending on if i'm using Linux or not, but on which build or version
of Linux i'm using.
So yeah, find a way to make it easy, full of pretty graphics, and no
command line efforts needed, and i'm all about giving it a try. Until then,
much like many users, i'll be using Windws.
[reply]
[top]
[»]
Wow....is all I can say
by syntax - Jan 26th 2005 01:22:28
I have to admit, I myself have been impressed with the impressive growth
and change i've seen with the Linux community over the past few years.
Being a long time Windows user, I remember a time when I was like,
"What the heck is a Redhat?" all too clearly.
Unfortunately it seems that at least a few companies involved in the Linux
world have sadly followed a very Microsoft like change in behavior and gone
for the almighty dollar of profit. SuSE being one prime example, you can't
even get a copy of their full distribution of Linux without paying them
directly for it. Are the days of being able to download full Linux distro's
via FTP becoming a thing of the past? I have to admit that I worry that
might happen.
I understand and see the value of promoting free software for easy use and
access on Windows. Afterall, it is the default standard that most everyone
with real computer experience is used to dealing with.
However, there comes a problem with that as well. How do the creators of
free and totally open software on a Windows platform compete? I honestly
don't know the answer to that. I've spent a lot of time looking all over
the net, and sure i've found a few freeware or open source CD/DVD burning
applications, but not one comes even remotely close to offering all the
various features and capability offered by Nero or Easy CD/DVD Media
creator. So, is that what we are stuck with if we go the route of free
software on Windows? Stuck with getting software that is free, and that
provides source, but that has such limited functionality that people who
want or need to use software of its type are stuck having no choice but to
use the big commercial applications anyways?
Try it, look anywhere on the net, see if you can find a open source CD/DVD
creating software that works on Windows, that offers not only the ability
to burn but also encode, and create menus for VCD/SVCD/Photo-Cd's. Also try
finding in that application the ability to create your own CD labels that
you can customize from a huge number of templates, and even download
duplicates to the original CD or DVD movie labels. Try then also finding
the ability to burn audio CD's, MP3 CD's, bootable CD's/DVD's, and mixed
content CD's/DVD's. Software like that just doesn't exist. Sure, you can
find a few apps that put together make some attempt to offer all that, but
even all put together, the big commerical apps still offer more in
comparison.
Open office, as another example, doesn't offer near the amount of useable
templates or clip art, animations, etc. that are all easily there for use
in Microsoft Office.
Sure M$ Office is bloated, and its a huge system and resource hog, and a
lot of times it doesn't work right, Nero is the same. But, you need to
realize that not every person who uses a computer is a programmer living in
his parent's basement who wants the leanest slickest thing that runs pure
command line with a variety of codes and switches that it would take a
translator to explain in plain english. Most computer users are like me, we
don't like the bugs, the crashing, the incompatability, and resouces
consuming of the huge retail apps, but we have little if any knowledge,
training, or skill for working non GUI applications, especially those that
require an extensive knowledge of command line coding just to install in
the first place.
We might not admit it, even those who have taken the plunge to Linux, but
it's the simple truth. We like our pretty fancy graphics, we like our easy
point and click, we like our ability to do everything we'd want all in one
single application. We don't like pure text command lines and confusing
codes and switches. We don't like having to import and export between 5
different applications to get one thing done that we could do in a single
application of the big commercial releases.
You need to realize a new generation is out there. A lot of your brothers,
sisters, aunts, uncles, and even parents are growing up in a computer world
where DOS doesn't exist, and where learning DOS or learning any sort of
command line functions are simply not part of any computer learning or
practice that exists nearly anywhere at all anymore.
If you grew up using DOS, or grew up with DOS still around and worked with
it in and out of Windows that is one thing. Most new computer users have
never even seen, much less used a DOS prompt. So expecting and huge
likelyhood for them to throw away Windows and dive into having learn
complex Unix commands, is an expectation that will never ammount to
anything or get you anywhere.
I myself admit, I despise Microsoft, I do not like their practices or
activities. I really dislike using their oppurating systems. I would love
to erase everything having anything to do with them from my computer and go
to using Linux. However, will I? Can I? That question remains to be
seen.
First of all, I don't like messing with command lines, and from what i've
seen, a variety of Linux distrobutions can't even install Nvidea video card
drivers without messing with complex coding to make them install, much less
work. Likewise, I'm a gamer. Sure Wine and Cedega have made huge progress,
and throw in DosBox, and your doing pretty decent on compatability. Yet,
all 3 together are a complicated pain to setup properly, and they all 3
together still lack a good amount of support for what a huge amount of
gamers want. The ability to run not DOS games and not the latest greatest
top of the line releases like DOOM 3, but the ability to easily install,
setup, run, and use games from the Windows 9.x era. Thats where the buck
stops. Sorry bout the luck there. No matter how good DOSbox does at
emulating DOS, it has no ability to emulate the 9.x Windows sytem. Sure
Direct X support via Cedega is nice, but nearly any game that expects 9.x
Windows to be there, in addition to Direct X, simply will not install or
run on any variety or version of Linux, or if they are somehow possibly
able to work, they simply won't work without a huge complicated pain in the
rear end to install and use.
The concept of a simple icon on your desktop, you click, type in a few
answers like your name and serial number, then it installs, adds all the
entries needed to a system, sets itself up to work exactly as it needs to,
then leaves you free to just click another icon, open it, use it, save it,
and go on to something else, seems a bit alien to the world of Linux. Until
that is there, people will keep using Windows even if they grow to despise
the ground that Bill Gates walks on, they will still use it.
Now, if it is somehow managed to get a free, and open source office suite
out there that yes, OFFERS EVERY LAST BIT of bloat that you get in M$
Office, but installs easily, and can easily switch back and forth from one
application to the next, has no complicated setup WHATSOEVER, and offers
full support for easily accessed document templates and an insanely huge
database of clipart, animation, and graphics.....and it becomes possible to
not only install but also play any DOS/Windows 9.x game ever
relased.....and you can find a media creation software that is every bit as
huge, bloated, resource hogging, and full of nice pretty graphics as Nero 6
Ultra Edition....that offers every single function that it offers, all from
the same application....on Linux....then Linux will start to win people
over in a massive scale.
The trick though, is the to offer every last bit of that without a single
end user even having to look at a command line once. The instant end users
have to learn some foreign language of codes, scripts, commands, switches,
and whatever else is the instant you lose them.
Sure, to a super user that can talk Unix and Dos code in his sleep, that
is slow, its buggy, its laggy, its inefficient, and its really a poor way
to work a computer. Most home end users are not superusers, despite what we
might think or claim. Our needs have to be me in what we want and expect
out of an oppurating system, otherwise, we'll keep blinding using Windows,
no matter how much we don't like it.
I'm right here. I'm waiting. I'm also more than willing to listen, read,
and learn. I'll even openly admit to the hardware in my system if needs
be.
I just need one Linux user, just one, that can help me find a distribution
of Linux I can get that is actually FREE to get a copy of, hence what FREE
software is supposed to be, I.E. I don't have to pay a penny to get a copy
of it to anyone, that I can get installed onto my computer, get all my
devices to work properly with it, including my cable internet connection.
Then be able to help me setup DosBox, Cedega, Wine and whatever else is
necessary for at least a good number of my games to work, and can do it all
without me even having to look at a command line even once....then i'll
gladly be a full time supporter and user of Linux. Until then, as much as I
hate using Windows, XP is staying right where it is on my hard drive, as is
MS Office, Nero 6 Ultra edition, etc.
So i'm waiting? Anyone up for the challenge of proving that it can be done
to win me, the average, non-super user, end home user, over to Linux?
Message me online sometime, and show me how it can be done, i'm willing,
ready, and able to toss Windows, but it has to be easy, no command line
messing or code learning, and full of nice pretty looking GUI goodness.
Otherwise XP is where i'm staying, like most people.
[reply]
[top]
[»]
Re: Wow....is all I can say
by Dale DeWitt - Dec 31st 2007 17:53:12
Try vmware player with ubuntu gutsy. It operates out-of-the-box as you
would want on even home edition. A 10 G paw print isn't obtrusive. The
fedora and gentoo distros didn't connect off the bat (thus . . . though
gentoo-secret sauce had an impressive drag and drop from windows/ubuntu is
ctr-alt exit to windows). Ignore the printer scanner and related devices
since driver support isn't there (I've yet to try a networked printer
option barring the driver issue). But it will automatically update all
packages and itself. Networking is merely making a shortcut to your router
assigned urls (and assigning the permissions as is done with windows) A
little terminal use is nice using instructions such as "Terminal for
Beginners" in the ubuntu forum (just enough to get some
satisfaction/results is the key to learning that which you'd think is an
antiquated mind-device. I used it to install plone/webDAV is rock solid
justifying a virtual installation on those grounds alone!). Using a
virtual machine is a safe sandbox for unsafe experiments. The torrent file
and download will get it all visible in about 1 hour all said and done.
Try it (all free). If you have the HD space you'll be pleasantly surprised
(in getting the best of both worlds). %startquote%
> I have to admit, I myself have been
> impressed with the impressive growth and
> change i've seen with the Linux
> community over the past few years.
>
> Being a long time Windows user, I
> remember a time when I was like,
> "What the heck is a Redhat?"
> all too clearly.
>
> Unfortunately it seems that at least a
> few companies involved in the Linux
> world have sadly followed a very
> Microsoft like change in behavior and
> gone for the almighty dollar of profit.
> SuSE being one prime example, you can't
> even get a copy of their full
> distribution of Linux without paying
> them directly for it. Are the days of
> being able to download full Linux
> distro's via FTP becoming a thing of the
> past? I have to admit that I worry that
> might happen.
>
> I understand and see the value of
> promoting free software for easy use and
> access on Windows. Afterall, it is the
> default standard that most everyone with
> real computer experience is used to
> dealing with.
>
> However, there comes a problem with that
> as well. How do the creators of free and
> totally open software on a Windows
> platform compete? I honestly don't know
> the answer to that. I've spent a lot of
> time looking all over the net, and sure
> i've found a few freeware or open source
> CD/DVD burning applications, but not one
> comes even remotely close to offering
> all the various features and capability
> offered by Nero or Easy CD/DVD Media
> creator. So, is that what we are stuck
> with if we go the route of free software
> on Windows? Stuck with getting software
> that is free, and that provides source,
> but that has such limited functionality
> that people who want or need to use
> software of its type are stuck having no
> choice but to use the big commercial
> applications anyways?
>
> Try it, look anywhere on the net, see if
> you can find a open source CD/DVD
> creating software that works on Windows,
> that offers not only the ability to burn
> but also encode, and create menus for
> VCD/SVCD/Photo-Cd's. Also try finding in
> that application the ability to create
> your own CD labels that you can
> customize from a huge number of
> templates, and even download duplicates
> to the original CD or DVD movie labels.
> Try then also finding the ability to
> burn audio CD's, MP3 CD's, bootable
> CD's/DVD's, and mixed content
> CD's/DVD's. Software like that just
> doesn't exist. Sure, you can find a few
> apps that put together make some attempt
> to offer all that, but even all put
> together, the big commerical apps still
> offer more in comparison.
>
> Open office, as another example, doesn't
> offer near the amount of useable
> templates or clip art, animations, etc.
> that are all easily there for use in
> Microsoft Office.
>
> Sure M$ Office is bloated, and its a
> huge system and resource hog, and a lot
> of times it doesn't work right, Nero is
> the same. But, you need to realize that
> not every person who uses a computer is
> a programmer living in his parent's
> basement who wants the leanest slickest
> thing that runs pure command line with a
> variety of codes and switches that it
> would take a translator to explain in
> plain english. Most computer users are
> like me, we don't like the bugs, the
> crashing, the incompatability, and
> resouces consuming of the huge retail
> apps, but we have little if any
> knowledge, training, or skill for
> working non GUI applications, especially
> those that require an extensive
> knowledge of command line coding just to
> install in the first place.
>
> We might not admit it, even those who
> have taken the plunge to Linux, but it's
> the simple truth. We like our pretty
> fancy graphics, we like our easy point
> and click, we like our ability to do
> everything we'd want all in one single
> application. We don't like pure text
> command lines and confusing codes and
> switches. We don't like having to import
> and export between 5 different
> applications to get one thing done that
> we could do in a single application of
> the big commercial releases.
>
> You need to realize a new generation is
> out there. A lot of your brothers,
> sisters, aunts, uncles, and even parents
> are growing up in a computer world where
> DOS doesn't exist, and where learning
> DOS or learning any sort of command line
> functions are simply not part of any
> computer learning or practice that
> exists nearly anywhere at all anymore.
>
> If you grew up using DOS, or grew up
> with DOS still around and worked with it
> in and out of Windows that is one thing.
> Most new computer users have never even
> seen, much less used a DOS prompt. So
> expecting and huge likelyhood for them
> to throw away Windows and dive into
> having learn complex Unix commands, is
> an expectation that will never ammount
> to anything or get you anywhere.
>
> I myself admit, I despise Microsoft, I
> do not like their practices or
> activities. I really dislike using their
> oppurating systems. I would love to
> erase everything having anything to do
> with them from my computer and go to
> using Linux. However, will I? Can I?
> That question remains to be seen.
>
> First of all, I don't like messing with
> command lines, and from what i've seen,
> a variety of Linux distrobutions can't
> even install Nvidea video card drivers
> without messing with complex coding to
> make them install, much less work.
> Likewise, I'm a gamer. Sure Wine and
> Cedega have made huge progress, and
> throw in DosBox, and your doing pretty
> decent on compatability. Yet, all 3
> together are a complicated pain to setup
> properly, and they all 3 together still
> lack a good amount of support for what a
> huge amount of gamers want. The ability
> to run not DOS games and not the latest
> greatest top of the line releases like
> DOOM 3, but the ability to easily
> install, setup, run, and use games from
> the Windows 9.x era. Thats where the
> buck stops. Sorry bout the luck there.
> No matter how good DOSbox does at
> emulating DOS, it has no ability to
> emulate the 9.x Windows sytem. Sure
> Direct X support via Cedega is nice, but
> nearly any game that expects 9.x Windows
> to be there, in addition to Direct X,
> simply will not install or run on any
> variety or version of Linux, or if they
> are somehow possibly able to work, they
> simply won't work without a huge
> complicated pain in the rear end to
> install and use.
>
> The concept of a simple icon on your
> desktop, you click, type in a few
> answers like your name and serial
> number, then it installs, adds all the
> entries needed to a system, sets itself
> up to work exactly as it needs to, then
> leaves you free to just click another
> icon, open it, use it, save it, and go
> on to something else, seems a bit alien
> to the world of Linux. Until that is
> there, people will keep using Windows
> even if they grow to despise the ground
> that Bill Gates walks on, they will
> still use it.
>
> Now, if it is somehow managed to get a
> free, and open source office suite out
> there that yes, OFFERS EVERY LAST BIT of
> bloat that you get in M$ Office, but
> installs easily, and can easily switch
> back and forth from one application to
> the next, has no complicated setup
> WHATSOEVER, and offers full support for
> easily accessed document templates and
> an insanely huge database of clipart,
> animation, and graphics.....and it
> becomes possible to not only install but
> also play any DOS/Windows 9.x game ever
> relased.....and you can find a media
> creation software that is every bit as
> huge, bloated, resource hogging, and
> full of nice pretty graphics as Nero 6
> Ultra Edition....that offers every
> single function that it offers, all from
> the same application....on Linux....then
> Linux will start to win people over in a
> massive scale.
>
> The trick though, is the to offer every
> last bit of that without a single end
> user even having to look at a command
> line once. The instant end users have to
> learn some foreign language of codes,
> scripts, commands, switches, and
> whatever else is the instant you lose
> them.
>
> Sure, to a super user that can talk Unix
> and Dos code in his sleep, that is slow,
> its buggy, its laggy, its inefficient,
> and its really a poor way to work a
> computer. Most home end users are not
> superusers, despite what we might think
> or claim. Our needs have to be me in
> what we want and expect out of an
> oppurating system, otherwise, we'll keep
> blinding using Windows, no matter how
> much we don't like it.
>
> I'm right here. I'm waiting. I'm also
> more than willing to listen, read, and
> learn. I'll even openly admit to the
> hardware in my system if needs be.
>
> I just need one Linux user, just one,
> that can help me find a distribution of
> Linux I can get that is actually FREE to
> get a copy of, hence what FREE software
> is supposed to be, I.E. I don't have to
> pay a penny to get a copy of it to
> anyone, that I can get installed onto my
> computer, get all my devices to work
> properly with it, including my cable
> internet connection. Then be able to
> help me setup DosBox, Cedega, Wine and
> whatever else is necessary for at least
> a good number of my games to work, and
> can do it all without me even having to
> look at a command line even once....then
> i'll gladly be a full time supporter and
> user of Linux. Until then, as much as I
> hate using Windows, XP is staying right
> where it is on my hard drive, as is MS
> Office, Nero 6 Ultra edition, etc.
>
> So i'm waiting? Anyone up for the
> challenge of proving that it can be done
> to win me, the average, non-super user,
> end home user, over to Linux? Message me
> online sometime, and show me how it can
> be done, i'm willing, ready, and able to
> toss Windows, but it has to be easy, no
> command line messing or code learning,
> and full of nice pretty looking GUI
> goodness. Otherwise XP is where i'm
> staying, like most people.
[reply]
[top]
[»]
Re: Wow....is all I can say
by Dale DeWitt - Jan 1st 2008 12:04:26
Additional details are warranted. Drag and drop functionality as well as
immediate out-of-the-box connectivity satisfaction was obtained with a vm
appliance (running on vmware player) . . . a regular download from
http://www.bagside.com/bagvapp/ linked from
http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/856 called 64 Studio 2.0
Electric. The bagside website does all drag & drop tested distros. So
there are probably better candidates than I originally let you to believe.
That is, I'm still scouting and finding better luck out-of-the-box
functionality. Sorry for having to postscript my original thought.
%startquote%
> I have to admit, I myself have been
> impressed with the impressive growth and
> change i've seen with the Linux
> community over the past few years.
>
> Being a long time Windows user, I
> remember a time when I was like,
> "What the heck is a Redhat?"
> all too clearly.
>
> Unfortunately it seems that at least a
> few companies involved in the Linux
> world have sadly followed a very
> Microsoft like change in behavior and
> gone for the almighty dollar of profit.
> SuSE being one prime example, you can't
> even get a copy of their full
> distribution of Linux without paying
> them directly for it. Are the days of
> being able to download full Linux
> distro's via FTP becoming a thing of the
> past? I have to admit that I worry that
> might happen.
>
> I understand and see the value of
> promoting free software for easy use and
> access on Windows. Afterall, it is the
> default standard that most everyone with
> real computer experience is used to
> dealing with.
>
> However, there comes a problem with that
> as well. How do the creators of free and
> totally open software on a Windows
> platform compete? I honestly don't know
> the answer to that. I've spent a lot of
> time looking all over the net, and sure
> i've found a few freeware or open source
> CD/DVD burning applications, but not one
> comes even remotely close to offering
> all the various features and capability
> offered by Nero or Easy CD/DVD Media
> creator. So, is that what we are stuck
> with if we go the route of free software
> on Windows? Stuck with getting software
> that is free, and that provides source,
> but that has such limited functionality
> that people who want or need to use
> software of its type are stuck having no
> choice but to use the big commercial
> applications anyways?
>
> Try it, look anywhere on the net, see if
> you can find a open source CD/DVD
> creating software that works on Windows,
> that offers not only the ability to burn
> but also encode, and create menus for
> VCD/SVCD/Photo-Cd's. Also try finding in
> that application the ability to create
> your own CD labels that you can
> customize from a huge number of
> templates, and even download duplicates
> to the original CD or DVD movie labels.
> Try then also finding the ability to
> burn audio CD's, MP3 CD's, bootable
> CD's/DVD's, and mixed content
> CD's/DVD's. Software like that just
> doesn't exist. Sure, you can find a few
> apps that put together make some attempt
> to offer all that, but even all put
> together, the big commerical apps still
> offer more in comparison.
>
> Open office, as another example, doesn't
> offer near the amount of useable
> templates or clip art, animations, etc.
> that are all easily there for use in
> Microsoft Office.
>
> Sure M$ Office is bloated, and its a
> huge system and resource hog, and a lot
> of times it doesn't work right, Nero is
> the same. But, you need to realize that
> not every person who uses a computer is
> a programmer living in his parent's
> basement who wants the leanest slickest
> thing that runs pure command line with a
> variety of codes and switches that it
> would take a translator to explain in
> plain english. Most computer users are
> like me, we don't like the bugs, the
> crashing, the incompatability, and
> resouces consuming of the huge retail
> apps, but we have little if any
> knowledge, training, or skill for
> working non GUI applications, especially
> those that require an extensive
> knowledge of command line coding just to
> install in the first place.
>
> We might not admit it, even those who
> have taken the plunge to Linux, but it's
> the simple truth. We like our pretty
> fancy graphics, we like our easy point
> and click, we like our ability to do
> everything we'd want all in one single
> application. We don't like pure text
> command lines and confusing codes and
> switches. We don't like having to import
> and export between 5 different
> applications to get one thing done that
> we could do in a single application of
> the big commercial releases.
>
> You need to realize a new generation is
> out there. A lot of your brothers,
> sisters, aunts, uncles, and even parents
> are growing up in a computer world where
> DOS doesn't exist, and where learning
> DOS or learning any sort of command line
> functions are simply not part of any
> computer learning or practice that
> exists nearly anywhere at all anymore.
>
> If you grew up using DOS, or grew up
> with DOS still around and worked with it
> in and out of Windows that is one thing.
> Most new computer users have never even
> seen, much less used a DOS prompt. So
> expecting and huge likelyhood for them
> to throw away Windows and dive into
> having learn complex Unix commands, is
> an expectation that will never ammount
> to anything or get you anywhere.
>
> I myself admit, I despise Microsoft, I
> do not like their practices or
> activities. I really dislike using their
> oppurating systems. I would love to
> erase everything having anything to do
> with them from my computer and go to
> using Linux. However, will I? Can I?
> That question remains to be seen.
>
> First of all, I don't like messing with
> command lines, and from what i've seen,
> a variety of Linux distrobutions can't
> even install Nvidea video card drivers
> without messing with complex coding to
> make them install, much less work.
> Likewise, I'm a gamer. Sure Wine and
> Cedega have made huge progress, and
> throw in DosBox, and your doing pretty
> decent on compatability. Yet, all 3
> together are a complicated pain to setup
> properly, and they all 3 together still
> lack a good amount of support for what a
> huge amount of gamers want. The ability
> to run not DOS games and not the latest
> greatest top of the line releases like
> DOOM 3, but the ability to easily
> install, setup, run, and use games from
> the Windows 9.x era. Thats where the
> buck stops. Sorry bout the luck there.
> No matter how good DOSbox does at
> emulating DOS, it has no ability to
> emulate the 9.x Windows sytem. Sure
> Direct X support via Cedega is nice, but
> nearly any game that expects 9.x Windows
> to be there, in addition to Direct X,
> simply will not install or run on any
> variety or version of Linux, or if they
> are somehow possibly able to work, they
> simply won't work without a huge
> complicated pain in the rear end to
> install and use.
>
> The concept of a simple icon on your
> desktop, you click, type in a few
> answers like your name and serial
> number, then it installs, adds all the
> entries needed to a system, sets itself
> up to work exactly as it needs to, then
> leaves you free to just click another
> icon, open it, use it, save it, and go
> on to something else, seems a bit alien
> to the world of Linux. Until that is
> there, people will keep using Windows
> even if they grow to despise the ground
> that Bill Gates walks on, they will
> still use it.
>
> Now, if it is somehow managed to get a
> free, and open source office suite out
> there that yes, OFFERS EVERY LAST BIT of
> bloat that you get in M$ Office, but
> installs easily, and can easily switch
> back and forth from one application to
> the next, has no complicated setup
> WHATSOEVER, and offers full support for
> easily accessed document templates and
> an insanely huge database of clipart,
> animation, and graphics.....and it
> becomes possible to not only install but
> also play any DOS/Windows 9.x game ever
> relased.....and you can find a media
> creation software that is every bit as
> huge, bloated, resource hogging, and
> full of nice pretty graphics as Nero 6
> Ultra Edition....that offers every
> single function that it offers, all from
> the same application....on Linux....then
> Linux will start to win people over in a
> massive scale.
>
> The trick though, is the to offer every
> last bit of that without a single end
> user even having to look at a command
> line once. The instant end users have to
> learn some foreign language of codes,
> scripts, commands, switches, and
> whatever else is the instant you lose
> them.
>
> Sure, to a super user that can talk Unix
> and Dos code in his sleep, that is slow,
> its buggy, its laggy, its inefficient,
> and its really a poor way to work a
> computer. Most home end users are not
> superusers, despite what we might think
> or claim. Our needs have to be me in
> what we want and expect out of an
> oppurating system, otherwise, we'll keep
> blinding using Windows, no matter how
> much we don't like it.
>
> I'm right here. I'm waiting. I'm also
> more than willing to listen, read, and
> learn. I'll even openly admit to the
> hardware in my system if needs be.
>
> I just need one Linux user, just one,
> that can help me find a distribution of
> Linux I can get that is actually FREE to
> get a copy of, hence what FREE software
> is supposed to be, I.E. I don't have to
> pay a penny to get a copy of it to
> anyone, that I can get installed onto my
> computer, get all my devices to work
> properly with it, including my cable
> internet connection. Then be able to
> help me setup DosBox, Cedega, Wine and
> whatever else is necessary for at least
> a good number of my games to work, and
> can do it all without me even having to
> look at a command line even once....then
> i'll gladly be a full time supporter and
> user of Linux. Until then, as much as I
> hate using Windows, XP is staying right
> where it is on my hard drive, as is MS
> Office, Nero 6 Ultra edition, etc.
>
> So i'm waiting? Anyone up for the
> challenge of proving that it can be done
> to win me, the average, non-super user,
> end home user, over to Linux? Message me
> online sometime, and show me how it can
> be done, i'm willing, ready, and able to
> toss Windows, but it has to be easy, no
> command line messing or code learning,
> and full of nice pretty looking GUI
> goodness. Otherwise XP is where i'm
> staying, like most people.
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Its hard to teach old dogs new OS.
by Pam - Nov 10th 2004 00:30:22
Yes I am the old dog. I have been a member here for sometime and yet I
haven't quite grasp the Linux world as of yet. Why? Well the story could
take a book to read, but in short I have been struggling with a computer I
purchased 9 months ago that has cost me hundreds if not thousands of $ in
loss not to mention the time. It started when I started to use Win XP
OS.
My goal was to start this year out with my own business as a web designer
and I ended up learning the complete ins and outs of troubleshooting,
security issues and learning all the hardware and programs that makes a
windows computer work. As for doing web designs, as far as I could get with
that was buying all the expensive programs I would need to get started but
the work has yet to happen. This week I have had to return this computer
back to the factory for the third time and I have a tech support sheet a
mile long with this company. Needless to say its been a complete nightmare!
For example: I noticed that my cd's were scratching badly, then some
started to crack and became unusable. But when a expensive web design
program I purchased busted in millions of pieces in the cd drive that made
the sound of a gunshoot, halfway through the install, I had had enough. Do
you think that the manufacture would offer to reimburse me of my software
that was ruined? Ya right! They did change out the defected 3g's CDRom
drive. Which is just one piece of hardware that went bad in it. They had to
replace the built-into the motherboard net card, the floppy drive and cmos
settings still will not keep its set, wiring to the start buttons and power
switch came lose, the hard drive had to be replaced, and other hardware
that I added like a new DVD player and additional hard drive, which was not
compatible according to MS even tho it was the same brand as the others
that came with the computer. My DVD player only works with a generic cdrom
driver. MS even tried to stop me from using the Intel chipsets that came
with the Intel computer because they had yet to determine if it was
compatible? What is going on here anyway?
Yes, I learned a lot about computers this year. Everything that I hadn't
set out to learn. One, never purchase a computer that doesn't have a
version of the full windows cd. You know the old recovery only to this
computer scam.
Why do we hate MS so badly? Because we are getting taken for a bunch of
idiots. Those who can't afford the more expensive equipment are being
screwed, scammed, spammed and hacked into. This is what I learned on my
summer vacation, according to my husband who swears that this is what it
has been for me because my new business hasn't made us a dime, instead has
cost us an arm and a leg.
So this is how it happened that I turned my attention to Linux. At that
time I had already joinned this site and really wasn't sure if I belonged
here or not. I have read and even purchased two Linux cd's programs, one
was the new Slackware 10 and the other was an old version of Susie. I don't
know if it was because I am just dumb or my computers was too messed up,
but I could not install it without mounting errors or corrupt file errors
I spent a lot of time reading instructions and continued to try over and
over, step by step.
I became an expert in installing these cd's! Even so there was only two
times I got past the error messages. If I was in I hadn't a clue what to do
next. Even thou I was reading the instructions, I couldn't tell you if it
was right or if something was missing. I never got online using a cable
ISP. It was so foreign to me and I hated that! So here I am still wanting
to learn to use my slackware, although in the forums they suggested for me
to try something easier at first. Instead I am still stuck in this
spiderweb of windows troubleshooting and then reinstalling my expensive
software for the millionth time and have yet to use.
I am afraid if big businesses like MS takes complete control of the world
of technology we won't have a chance in hell of ever stopping them at
another point in time. This organization of hard at work Linux freedom
developers is absolutely necessary and so important in order to prevent
this from happening. All the hard work everyone has done to contribute to
this cause without much pay will pay off in the long run and it must
continue to grow.
As far as I am concern, allowing window users to use this site, If for no
other reason but to stay in contact with others like myself, who will also
face the types of nightmares that I have had, will eventually want an look
for an alternative too. To be able to join this site and offer window
users a taste of free licensed software even if it is just a few things we
can use here is a necessary tool to see to it that the Linux information
spreads, and it is. The Linux OS will get easier to use and more will
switch. I am positive of that!
Freshmeat and all of you including the Linux contributors please allow me
this opportunity to say thank you for being here! Hopefully I will figure
out the how to's and maybe someday I will be able to submit a project of my
own. Won't that be a hoot? ~
--
"The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest." Matthew 9:37, 38
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Free software...
by Agent - May 8th 2004 01:53:00
Well, any free software is always good to have... There are not alot of
free things you get in the world these days.
--
Real Estate - Rentals
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That is why I am here
by Jonatron - Apr 30th 2004 16:19:57
I came here looking for open source windows software yesterday. There are
tons of stupid sites out there with crappy "free"ware and
shareware and it is very difficult to find such things that aren't
horrible. i don't even care if it is open-source, although you all
obviously do. I would prefer if all software was, but you can't have
everything. Regardless, when you need a program to do some useful
activity, like synchronize files over ftp, or do frequency analysis of live
audio, there are tons of crappy free programs that will do it, and a few
nicely designed programs that will. Please help me find the nicely
designed ones.
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[»]
Is Free Software for Windows Good?
by jd - Nov 11th 2003 12:47:46
I really have no business commenting, but after reading every comment both
good and bad i felt compelled. I think everyone is missing the point in all
this. I am as green as they come, I am forced to run windows for now
(freashmeat will change this i know), but mostly everyone including most of
you came from the windows environment. You just dont go to the local
radioshack and come back linux ready. For one reson or another you as a
group needed something better than bill gates. To make a long story short,
there are a lot of good windows people that have no idea about half this
stuff . Yes they are fail in comparrison to most of you more familiar and
expericed users. Dont forget you started at bottom knowing little or
nothing and have found a great place to come for information ,new software,
and some smart cookies.
Basically it boils down not linux vs windows us against you. It
doesnt matter what system it is, I myself em looking for the best
applications, software, stability,and hate being so tied by windows. I bet
there are many more just like me. Dont shut the door that was left open for
you when you needed something different and where just starting out. ty
thats all jd
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[»]
Defending the four freedoms of the GPL on Windows
by Haakon Meland Eriksen - May 24th 2002 12:45:59
The article starts out well reminding people of what the four freedoms of
the GPL are, but looses focus at the end with a "I don't like paying
for software".
I like paying for software, ease of use, support and training. I like
this, because by parting with some of my money I support the development
team, the marketing team and so on - I keep them in business. I want to
keep them in business, because my business depends on what they make.
Now, if my business stops depending upon further development, support,
ease of use and training, I would like to be free. I would like to say no
to upgrades. I would like to disengage from the product maker until I need
them again.
A parallell: If my car needs service, I would like to pick the mechanic
myself at any time I like. I would like spare parts to be available until I
die if I'm not fed up with the old heap.
Proprietary vendors like Microsoft doesn't let me do that. I must upgrade
regularly, otherwise my business documents will be impossible to exchange
with others. Why can't Word2 read the document format of Word XP? Is it a
law against that? It is a business strategi, but not a very nice one. I
understand that it might be difficult incorporate special new features
without substantial rewrites, but surely a simple letter...
This is what the four freedoms are about, as I see them. I get choose who
the mechanic is at any time I like. If the software is in a lingo long
forgotten it is more expensive to figure it out, but it is legal and it is
possible. Nobody will come and call you, a tax paying citizen a pirate. A
PIRATE - the rudeness of these people is beyond compare! I don't know which
schools these people went to, but I for one will never send my children to
such a dismal institution. A REAL pirate KILLS people, RAPES people, and
STEAL their belongings afterwords. I've met boat refugees who have come up
against real pirates several times on their way to safety, listened to
their stories, and unsolicited copying is NOT piracy.
My business needs are such that I don't need a new office suite every
year. Quite frankly, what I need is - you know - a thingy - that does that
special thing which scratches that itch. That interoperability with my
accountancy package, and that old printer with the really wide paper, which
the original vendor doesn't support anymore because its chasing some new
operating system with new printer models. There is nothing wrong with the
old printer, its just not fashionable anymore. Maybe, just maybe, in a free
software world, there might have been a mechanic.
Linux is just a kernel, so is the Hurd, they are means to the end called
operating system, like the kernel in Microsoft's Windows. The difference is
in the freedom, not the price. That copyrighted freedom to run the program,
for any purpose (freedom 0). The freedom to study how the program works,
and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). The freedom to redistribute copies
so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2). The freedom to improve the
program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole
community benefits. (freedom 3). While making money to live for, because
the community around you understands your needs for food and shelter.
Should free software be built for Microsoft Windows or any other
proprietary operating system? Personally, I will never, ever do that. I
don't know how. If I did know how, I would still not have done that, but I
wouldn't stop someone else from doing so either. I'm free to do what I
like, and so are you. You don't need anyones permission. Well, perhaps
except Microsoft's. They don't like free software, because they don't like
freedom - your freedom. "Gates" says it all really - closed
gates.
--
Haakon Meland Eriksen
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Open source for Windows is good
by justman - Jan 2nd 2000 01:01:56
I think that the large mass of comments has generally gotten the message
out to the freshmeat staff so I'll try no to be redundant of what was
already said.
I am in support of open source windows programs being posted on freshmeat.
I am also in support of freshmeat evolving to a site for finding open
source, multiplatform software. I think they should let windows programs
in, but at the same time shut out commercial unix software. So when I see a
new version of Emacs posted on freshmeat, yes I would like a link to the
windows version. Yes I would like to see the latest version of the Gimp
port to windows posted on freshmeat. As for The next version of Excel, An
obvious no. When a commercial ssh implementaion is released which is
basically commercial software, no I don't want it posted.
Many of you are against Windows OSS in the first place, but I am all for
it. Here are my arguments:
First of all, Windows is a poorly built, terribly mantained, and so on and
so on, operating system. However, It is the operating system
mareted for, (mis?)designed for, and used by average people.
Now consider the following
- The average(windows) user never heard of:
- GPL
- POSIX
- Linux, Unix (Open, Free, NET)BSD Hurd
- RTFM
- vi, emacs, pico
- Many Open soure OS users, myself included, were once freware junkies
- The biggest selling point for open source OSes are their price
- Open source code on mainstream OSes will lead to an increase in
mainstream awareness of the whole opensource movement
Secondly, many of us unfortunatly have to deal with commercial software.
However, this is made easier because of software ported to windows from the
unix world.
Thirdly, there are a lot of talented windows programmers out there. If
they saw a piece of software such as the gimp for windows and found out
they could contribute to it, some of them would. Those changes could
benifit users of the gimp, or whatever piece of software it is, on other
platforms as well. Isn't that what open source software is all about.
Allowing everyone to contribute to create better software.
Fourthly, This isn't a new idea. Lynx, gcc, and emacs just to name a few
have long been ported to the dos/windows envirorment. I personally first
learned of GNU because of the dos port of GCC
Finally think about it like this. We wanted mainstream acceptance of OSS
and this is our best shot at it. Linux will never be for the masses, nor
any Unix like operating system. People just don't want to learn how to
admin their systems. If we make windows OSS we auctually have a small
chance of getting Gates to releasing some of his source code. Even if that
dosen't happen if windows OSS catches on and an office suite is released
under the GPL will Gates be able to compete with an enemy he can't buy out
or bankrupt
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Freeware/Free Software
by Chris Armstrong - Dec 24th 1999 03:37:13
Lots of you people need to figure out what the difference between freeware
and Free Software is. Those millions of "freeware sites" are obviously
something freshmeat needs to stay away from. But I have yet to see a
popular
web site for Free windows software (when I say "Free" I mean "open
source",
btw), and I think it'd be a great idea to have a windows.fm.net.
Obviously
windows.fm.net wouldn't be over-loaded with crap software like all the
freeware sites are, because 1> there isn't as much Free windows
software as
shareware/freeware and 2> Free software is usually of a higher quality
than
freeware.
Oh. and Get rid of the steenking commercial software. :)
Chris
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Win32 Open Source Software
by iGN - Dec 21st 1999 03:35:00
I've seen many of you state that you would like to see listings of
Win32-software if it is related to Linux/BSD/etc, i.e. is a port to Win32.
I would really like to see listings for free Win32 products, one of
the reasons is that porting from Win32 to Linux is going to be much more
easy if the Open Source movement reaches the Win32 OS.
Freshmeat should, IMHO, do as much as it can to promote Open Source
software on all OSes. I spend quite a lot of time in front of a Win32-box
at work, and would love to know about Open Source software to add to my
toolkit. I also agree, however, to the points made about having "separate
sites" (win32.freshmeat.net/unix.freshmeat.net).
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My POV.
by ellis - Dec 20th 1999 13:43:30
Well free software for DOS and Windows for every. Even Open source
software. What really amuses me is that when you say "Open Source" people
think of "Linux". Sure you have to pay for Windows, but you get support for
it. Sure it may be closed source. As I see it, closed sourced is as good as
open source. The makers have more control over closed source programs. I
have used free software and expensive software and some times the free
stuff is completely better than the $800 software and sometimes vice versa.
So really people shouldn't really complain about free and non free, open
and closed, becuase there are some good reasons behind the fact on why it's
that way. If you don't want to pay for it you can get a program that is the
freeware/open source sister, or if you don't mind feds knocking on your
door at 3 am, you can just grab it from a warez site. =)
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Re: My POV.
by AstroMan - Apr 24th 2004 21:19:09
> Well free software for DOS and Windows
> for every. Even Open source software.
> What really amuses me is that when you
> say "Open Source" people think of
> "Linux". Sure you have to pay for
> Windows, but you get support for it.
> Sure it may be closed source. As I see
> it, closed sourced is as good as open
> source. The makers have more control
> over closed source programs. I have used
> free software and expensive software and
> some times the free stuff is completely
> better than the $800 software and
> sometimes vice versa. So really people
> shouldn't really complain about free and
> non free, open and closed, becuase there
> are some good reasons behind the fact on
> why it's that way. If you don't want to
> pay for it you can get a program that is
> the freeware/open source sister, or if
> you don't mind feds knocking on your
> door at 3 am, you can just grab it from
> a warez site. =)
You don't seem to understand what Free/Open source is all about. It is
not about free as in cost, but Free as in FREEdom.
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[»]
Free software is always a good thing
by John Hartnup - Dec 20th 1999 11:36:10
I don't see the difference between Free software for MS Windows and Free
software for Solaris, AIX or any other non-free OS.
The important thing is to educate Windows users in the meaning of "Free"
-- libre not gratis. We need them to understand that Internet Explorer does
not fit our definition of "Free".
So I'd say -- go for it. Include all the Free Software for Windows you can
-- but make sure it is *only* free in the sense of open source. Python,
Perl, Xpilot -- these are all fine. Eudora is not.
... oh, and I'd approve of the "My Freshmeat" thing, too.
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Re: Free software is always a good thing
by The Lost Generation - May 2nd 2004 23:28:33
> I don't see the difference between Free
> software for MS Windows and Free
> software for Solaris, AIX or any other
> non-free OS.
It only helps Windows/M$.... read more at this web site (I don't completely
agree with that but it gives reasons why that person believes the way they
do.)
> So I'd say -- go for it. Include all the
> Free Software for Windows you can -- but
> make sure it is *only* free in the sense
> of open source......
> ... oh, and I'd approve of the "My
> Freshmeat" thing, too.
I'd approve too.
Though I do hate M$, I think it's just stubborn to believe GPL is the only
way. People can't live off donations back and forth can they? Honestly I
don't believe I've heard of many people making a living off a piece of open
sourced software. I'll admit there are acceptations, but I'd have to say as
a whole it's done for fun, as a hobby, or just to benifit the open source
community. I have have basically removed all my old warez software and
either found open source replacements or went without. For me price is
still a big issue, being a poor college student. I just don't have the
money to throw a couple hundred dollars down on a piece of software I don't
know if I'll even like or not. I feel I've begun to ramble here. To
conclude, open source projects are a beautiful thing. Closed source
projects do have their place in the world. Freshmeat and the
community can only benefit from having open sourced programs of all
platforms, even proprietary platforms. I wasn't born perl scripting in
Linux, I started out learning about DOS and programming with DJGPP (the gcc
port to dos.) From there I learned about Linux, open source, and the GPL to
mention a few things I learned about. Sure you can argue that porting to
closed OSes only helps those users stay with that OS but it could also be
argued that it brings in just as many people as it keeps away.
--
|-|_
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Better display, several freshmeats
by Mathieu Bois - Dec 20th 1999 09:44:08
Freshmeat should at least include **all** software that is available with
the source.
To have several servers, like:
- www.freshmeat.net for the merge of all the other servers:
- unix.freshmeat.net for all that is about Unix in general
- windows.freshmeat.net for all that is about Windows in general
- linux.freshmeat.net why not ? a sub-part of unix.freshmeat.net
- documentation.freshmeat.net for everything that isn't software
(editorial, trainings, technical, ...)
- short.freshmeat.net to get only the sum ups of each day (like you do
currently in the right part of the screen : just the title of the
softwares) but for every kind of platform. For instance, if we do the
previous division, there would be several columns, one for unix, with
inside maybe in different colors the different flavours of unices, another
for windows, another one for documentation,...
etc.
For Unix, you would issue an announce for each supported platform.
Example : for cdrecord, you would post/display the same announce in the
windows/unix/linux servers. (only one announce, but displayed several
times).
And if the concept of several servers doesn't suit you, then record a
profile via a cookie so that the user when he comes on freshmeat, get
straightly what he wants.
By extending this idea, you could do a kind of "my_freshmeat.net",
where the user could modify its profile via a form HTML page, and filter
straightly on the server the software he wants/doesn't want to be
displayed.
One more point : why do you display all software the same? I've myself
been "trapped" several times, reading the short description, going to the
page, finding the software very good, and then... arghhh it's not free! If
you would display the black caption with a different color, according to
the licence type, (green for GPL, red for commercial, grey for free is not
commercial use...) the readability would be better. And it can be done
quite easily with CSS.
Freshmeat is a great site, but the great number of posts each day
makes it very hard to read. It still needs more structure to remain a very
useful site, unless you decide to restrict it to only GPL software for
Unix, which would not be a good thing...
Regards
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The compiler may not be free but it doesn't have to be.
by unformat - Dec 20th 1999 09:36:37
I do not have a free compiler on the Win32 platform that comes with a
useful IDE and handy libraries. However, I recently bought a computer
magazine that had Delphi 3 on the cover CD. The accompanying license said
that exes are not to be distributed. Fair enough - just distribute the
source! Compilers are great tools that every system should have whether or
not the user knows how to use them - I rarely compile on Linux with
anything with more complex than "./configure", "make install" or simillar
instructions direct from the Readme file.
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Open Source != Linux
by Andy Key - Dec 20th 1999 07:39:23
As an author of a few open source projects for 32-bit windows platforms, it
sometimes bugs me to see the "it ain't linux, so it must suck" attitude
present in some posts. I firmly believe in free software, and so I ensure
that my projects always compile using freely available tools -- they'll
still compile in commercial tools as well, but the supplied makefiles are
always written for the GCC ports (mingw32/cygwin). I would welcome the
inclusion of non-linux software on Freshmeat, but it might make sense to
make the selection configurable, ie. by platform, license, category and so
on.
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unix.freshmeat.net, win.freshmeat.net *and* java.freshmeat.net
by kwerle - Dec 19th 1999 16:17:12
I'd like to see multiple freshmeats too - with the addition of
java.freshmeat.net.
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Re: unix.freshmeat.net, win.freshmeat.net *and* java.freshmeat.net
by AstroMan - Apr 24th 2004 21:47:59
> I'd like to see multiple freshmeats too
> - with the addition of
> java.freshmeat.net.
The multiple sites would be cool, though why java.freshmeat.net? That
would be silly. Because we would then need c.freshmeat.net,
cpp.freshmeat.net, php.freshmeat.net, perl.freshmeat.net,
python.freshmeat.net, ruby.freshmeat.net, etc, etc.
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poll?
by karellen - Dec 19th 1999 14:39:07
Why not do a poll to see if Windows opensource would be good.
Or ask CmdrTaco do one on Slashdot. One IP should have only
1 vote, so the poll doesn't get abused (it happened). I find
the discussion rather controversial, some people have been
off topic etc. Don't *you* like to vote? I do. Ok, I hope this isn't
too off-topic and if it is, sorry.
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A bad idea.... VERY bad.
by ehlarson - Dec 19th 1999 14:12:39
I really don't like this idea, for MANY reasons.
1. How can you even really have free software when the development
tools that are needed (i.e. MFC and VC++) are closed?
2. Are you sure that there are no license gotchas associated with
VC++/MFC that make the GPL invalid?
3. Are Windows developers really ready for GPL? Or will we be treated
to Windows developers incorporating GPL code into their own closed binaries
because they thought GPL=public domain?
4. Ports to another system tend to look crappy. This may create the
impression that OSS is crappy in the minds of Windows users, and make OSS
on Windows a flop. Microsoft may exploit this in it's FUD.
5. I thought we wanted to get Windows developers writing for OSS
operating systems, NOT OSS developers writing for closed operating
systems!!!! This model could REDUCE the amount of OSS software for OSS
systems. Rmember, ATTRACTING DEVELOPERS TO WRITE FOR AN OS IS *THE* KEY TO
SUCCESS!!
6. Microsoft is known for anti-choice business practices. Do we really
want to support a company that puts out stuff like the Mindcraft
Benchmarketing, the Halloween Documents and the Linux FUD page?
7. I don't think we want to soften the financial pain associated with
chosing a non-free operating system like MS Windows.
8. This hybrid closed OS + OSS application model gives MS an
embrace-extend opportunity into OSS that we DON'T want.
9. Initially the amount of free software will be small compared to
shareware, nagware, etc. This small amount may be used as part of a FUD
campaign to discredit the OSS development model.
10. Currently free (beer) software on Windows is free because the
quality is too low to sell. OSS software could be tarred by the same brush
very easily.OSS software is fighting an image of 'a collection of midnight
hacks'. The last thing we need is to reinforce that.
11. OSS needs killer apps that are exclusive to OSS operating systems.
The last thing we want is 'oh that's available for Windows too, so let's
just keep running Windows'.
The more I think about it, the more I think that this is the worst
thing that could be done to the OSS community.
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Re: A bad idea.... VERY bad.
by AstroMan - Apr 24th 2004 21:35:18
I would have to second all of your points. I think it would be a
good thing(tm) to have a site for Open/Free software for MS Windows instead
of all the crap shareware, freeware sites, though we need to look at the
possibilities of that. With OSS OSes, the core of the OS is Open for
anyone to use and leverage fairly in their applications, while MS Windows
is and always will be closed and proprietary. OSS software will always be
at a disadvantage against closed source software from MS and their partners
since they have the code and all API's and protocols. A lot of OSS
software doesn't port as well to Win32 and if done half-a$$ed, could leave
users not familiar with OSS
a bad taste in their mouth. It is not an easy choide since it could be a
powerful way to advertise OSS and its benefits to users stuck in a
proprietary world. And as you pointed out in point #5, we want developers
for OSS OSes, not overpriced proprietary ones that lock you into ONE
company.
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re: Is Free Software for Windows Good?
by kaitlin - Dec 19th 1999 13:22:34
After carefully reading Jeff's editorial, I do not believe he is asking
if Windows software is any good, but rather if it is a -good thing-. Is it
about commercial OS's? That is part of the issue, but not the issue
itself. By and large, it is about people. What could be wrong about
offering freedom of choice to the individuals who use a closed OS, some of
which do not realize they have a choice.
While it may not be up to the Linux community to be the pioneers of Open
Source applications for Windows, who better than the Linux Community. We
are the proof that it works, and it is good. The least it could do is
allow Windows users the chance to sample the computing world we find so
wonderful. I can see many possibilities in its future. Why would a Windows
user pay for an application that in its rush to get the new product on the
shelf, is full of bugs, features they may never use or lacks the features
they need, when they could obtain, under GNU/GPL, a product for free that
may be more stable and give them the opportunity to be a part it's
development? Could it be possible that in the future of Windows Open Source
software, commercial developers feel compelled to create better software in
order to justify the expense? That in itself would be a good thing.
Ask any business what their competition could do to hurt them the most.
Set up a location nearby and offer better products for less money, and
better customer support. Those things are why I chose to switch to Linux in
the first place! I find the majority of the Linux community to be people
who are very supportive of each other. I have never regretted the switch,
and each day I find another reason to be proud to belong to such a
wonderful group. The future offers possibilities for the computer users of
the world. One thing that is great, is all of us can determine which
direction it goes. I do not see how Open Source software for Windows could
hurt the Linux community, I do see benefits for -people-, regardless of OS.
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Is Free Software for Windows Good?
by Jean-Luc Fontaine - Dec 19th 1999 12:58:58
I think so, but it MUST be Open source.
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It all comes down to how you view freshmeat....
by Michael Bacarella - Dec 19th 1999 12:47:48
Freshmeat is an open source project. It makes sense to consider it one.
The purpose of open source projects is to "scratch the itch". Freshmeat
now soothes my itches, which I can categorize as:
- I want a centralized place that indexes free software
- I want to be able to easily leave feedback for others to see, in the
case that it is necessary to comment on this software
- I would like to be able to link my own software to this index in order
to increase it's utility
There are of course plenty of these sites now, but freshmeat was
the first, and I'm certain it has the largest user base. Besides, I don't
want to take the time to learn and accustom myself to other systems.
Freshmeat scratches the itch just fine, if you overscratch, it starts to
hurt. :)
If freshmeat wants to know if it should expand it's scope, it has to ask
itself if it's actually scratching more itches by doing this.
If any free software maintainer is asked to port their software to
Windows, they would usually do their best, especially if there was a
demand. The idea is not to make moral judgements about what platforms
you're promoting, but to in fact aid the community. Increasing utility
enhances the value of your software.
Identify the itch: I want to find free software on other Operating
Systems. Is this an itch worth scratching? Helping Windows users is
certainly noble, but on the other hand, are they really lacking?
We shouldn't be pitying them for using Windows because it doesn't have
free software, but we should in fact be pitying them because they USE
Windows. There's no reason to say "poor Windows user, that system has no
support whatsoever :(". LIE. Microsoft slit a lot of throats and
burned a lot of bridges to make Windows a platform of highest ubiquity. It
is the most well supported platform holding the largest mindshare of
software developers.
They don't need freshmeat. They don't need this free software resource.
Let Microsoft fulfill the rest of their needs. They have already asked
Microsoft to fulfill their OS needs.
Conversely, supporting Windows on freshmeat could have major effects on
the system itself. It would certainly annoy many freshmeat users, since
they are no longer the specific and sole target of the site anymore. It
would not sit well with me, personally.
Inversely, does freshmeat simply want one target? That isn't good for
freshmeat, because it becomes obsolete if that one single target
disappears. But do you worry about the Linux community disappearing? I
wouldn't.
To throw my vote in the pile, if anyone is asking, freshmeat is fine the
way it is. The value it would be adding to itself by increasing Windows
support is not one worth pursuing, for the reasons I've stated above. This
would help freshmeat more than it would help the community that helped
build it, in my opinion.
If freshmeat feels that they have to take that route, then by all means.
On the same token, you ASKED us what we thought, so this isn't my fault.
:)
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Re: Open Source for windows users
by unclekellan - May 27th 2003 03:11:06
> Helping
> Windows users is certainly noble, but on
> the other hand, are they really
> lacking?
>
> We shouldn't be pitying them for using
> Windows because it doesn't have free
> software, but we should in fact be
> pitying them because they USE Windows.
> There's no reason to say "poor Windows
> user, that system has no support
> whatsoever :(". LIE. Microsoft slit a
> lot of throats and burned a lot of
> bridges to make Windows a platform of
> highest ubiquity. It is the most well
> supported platform holding the largest
> mindshare of software developers.
>
> They don't need freshmeat. They don't
> need this free software resource. Let
> Microsoft fulfill the rest of their
> needs. They have already asked Microsoft
> to fulfill their OS needs.
Anyone reading the posts on this discussion would think perople had never
heard of hacking or indeed copying software.
Well wake up! There are lots of us coding-illiterate computer users who
find compiling and running linux is just a tad more compluicated than we
need, but we are quite happy to run (illegal) copies of windows OS on their
system
We haven't ASKED microsoft for anything - on the contrary its more than
no-one has offered us as easy to install and run OS that doesn't involve us
having to understand the complexities of admin rights, kernel coding and
binaries.
Yes, I use windows, but I also use firebird, thunderbird and openoffice -
and believe me i scour the web for opensource alternatives for as much of
the software as i can. But i want nice GUI interfaces and faqs and i dont
want to have take a programming certificate just to run an app.
It would be really positive thing if sites like this was more open and
recognised, unlike some its members, that not all windows users are slaves
to the bill gates cult - rather - the linux-fetish is blighting the wider
vision of GPL/open source culture with a myopic perpective that cant see
that way to bring down the bill gates monopoly is many pronged
Open Source for all! Even us poor windows users
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Categorization of freshmeat.net
by Epesh - Dec 19th 1999 11:12:47
I rather like the idea of multiple freshmeat.net sites, where said
classification would be something like posix.freshmeat.net for unixen,
linux.freshmeat.net (would include all posix software that's geared for
linux), bsd.freshmeat.net (for BSD), windows.freshmeat.net (for windows),
etc. This would also allow clearer seperation for languages, as well, so we
might have perl.freshmeat.net and java.freshmeat.net as well.
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IEW ... windows on freshmeat ?
by synap - Dec 19th 1999 10:04:33
ehhh ... i was scared when i see this highlight...
i think gpled windows software is cool but not on freskmeat make a new
site for it like www.deadmeat.net or something but not on freshmeat i am
going to freshmeat because i can find all new *nix software there.. and
that is great this site is great make a section for windows software that
would be cool but not mixed with *nix..
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Re: 'SELLOUT' eq 'FRESHMEAT'
by Patrick Lenz - Dec 19th 1999 06:21:29
Let me repeat (as mentioned in 3 separate comments now): It is not
our intention to add Windows software to freshmeat. I have no idea why this
is still the focus of the comments here.
As far as 'Andover.Net trying to increase its pages/day by including
Microsoft Windows software' goes: why would Andover plan on duplicating
efforts? Andover.Net already has a (well visited btw.) Windows Software
collection available at DaveCentral.
Now please refrain from posting comments regarding the purpose of
freshmeat and how silly it would be to add Windows software to our
application index. It's not planned. It's not intended. Thank you.
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'SELLOUT' eq 'FRESHMEAT' ?????????
by bgilmore - Dec 19th 1999 06:04:21
If I start seeing MICROSOFT WINDOWS software on Freshmeat, this site has
lost its edge.
Someone else will fill the spot.
I have a feeling that ANDOVER.NET is trying to increase its pages/day
by including Microsoft Windows software.
I apprecate Open-Source software, but ONLY on an Open-Source operating
system such as Linux or BSD. I visit Freshmeat to find software relevant
to my world which is basically Linux. I don't want to waiste time filtering
Windows applications.
PLEASE DON'T SELL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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YES: Posting Open Source Windows Apps Can Only Help
by Rob Dale - Dec 19th 1999 04:41:20
There are two reasons why doing this will benefit Open Source and,
ultimately, Linux (*BSDs too ;):
- Open Source
Open Source is not platform-dependent. It's about the application.
Running GIMP on Windows or Linux does not make GIMP any less Open. GIMP
is governed under a license, not an operating system. Get GIMP into these
people's hands and let them know that high-quality, free software exists.
Also tell them
that there's a very supportive community behind it all. Get them to
become comfortable with Open Source applications. Remember, it's the
applications they use directly, not the operating system. After all,
Windows runs on top of DOS, yet nobody remembers DOS these days.
Just imagine if more Open Source programs (which seem to be very
Linux-centric at the moment) were ported to Windows and inspired Windows
coders to Open their code. I bet the glDoom incident probably wouldn't
have happened. Everyone deserves an opportunity. That's what Open Source
is about - Freedom. You can not promote Open Source if you deny others the
same rights.
- Linux / *BSD
Now it's a few months later. Open Source apps have caught up to
commercial ones in terms of features (but, of course, it's more stable
too). And by now you've switched the majority of your friends to using
Open Source apps (which also happen to run everywhere). So,
when that next Windows upgrade comes around for $100, you can tell them
that it's time to upgrade. Yes, that's right, upgrade. Upgrade to a free
OS that's has been running all the applications they've are using.
On a side note: Freshmeat provides links to software. Not Linux.
Not FreeBSD. Not Java. Not Open Source. This is the next logical
step.
--
--
Rob
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No thanks
by Del - Dec 19th 1999 03:04:41
(1) There is no such thing as open source software for Windows.
You do not have the source code to the C library, Win32 API,
etc. Windows software is not free.
(2) In an ideal world, nobody would write software for Windows.
The O/S is fundamentally flawed. Writing software for it only
encourages the b.....ds (Microsoft et al).
(3) There are plenty of sites I can go to if I want software for
Windows. Keep it off Freshmeat please.
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Is Free Windows Software Good? It All Depends.
by Mike Tindor - Dec 19th 1999 02:47:35
I've been a beneficiary of all that Freshmeat has to offer probably since
the first week the site was up -- It's one of the first things I do when I
go and sit down in front of the console at work every day. What am I
looking for when I type in the URL or click on the bookmark? Well, it's
not so much the latest greatest Linux software that I can find for free --
although that is definitely an added bonus. I come here to find programs
to make my life easier -- I come here to find software that is going to
help me to learn as much as I can. It just so happens that during that
quest I end up seeing all these programs written by talented and generous
(and/or ego-bloated) individuals who for various reasons have chosen to
make them available to the general public, usually for free. Countless
times I have downloaded/installed software that I'd never dreamed existed
or thought there was a need for, only to find that it makes my job much
easier and my life in front of a computer much more enjoyable throughout
the day.
I don't sit in front of a *nix machine all day - Due to my job I'm
torn between *nix, NT and Win9x. I think if I were to see a great influx
of software written for Windows show up on this site while I was
specifically in search of a *nix solution, I'd probably be pretty miffed
for the short term -- But then I'd find what I was looking for and most
likely at a later time and come back and try some of that free Windows
software.
Granted, there are places like Tucows where you can get a tremendous
amount of freeware/shareware Windows software, but in general that type of
software is of such a mixed variety. If free Windows software was going to
be made available via Freshmeat, I would want that software to have some
relation to *nix -- For example, look at MySQL -- really nice database
software that exists for *nix _AND_ Windows.
I want software that I can run on both platforms that facilitates the
integration of our Windows/*nix OS' and numerous hardware platforms. If
the Freshmeat staff and some talented contributors are willing to provide
that, I'd be ecstatic! If the software has no relation at all to
BSD/Linux/etc or is not going to help the new crop of NT-only
system/network administrators to do their jobs better by encouraging *nix
education and integration, then I'm not for it.
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Windows software on GNU site (To: jeff)
by Alex Belits - Dec 19th 1999 02:36:55
All software, mentioned at GNU site is ported Unix software, and --
surprise -- already announced on freshmeat. FSF is the last place where you
should look for advocacy of software that requires Windows to run.
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Bad things
by Alex Belits - Dec 19th 1999 02:31:44
- The idea of Open Source software, made for Windows only (as opposed to
Windows ports of Open Source software, made for Unix/Linux) contraicts the
culture of Windows programmers, their ability to work in open environment,
and the nature of Windows that remains to be a "sabotaged" environment,
created and designed to advance the goals of one company by excluding all
others. This nature of Windows does not allow to create high-quality (both
high performance, reliability and interoperability) software that Open
Source is all about, and there is no point aiming for being the third best
after some ugly hack from Microsoft and some another ugly hack from its
"strategic partner".
While I think that porting Open Source software to Windows is a waste of
time and source comprehensibility, creating Open Source software for
Windows is plain counter-productive (and IMHO morally wrong).
- Last time I have checked, freshmeat announced only software that can
run on Linux. I will prefeer it remaining the same way. This criteria works
well for Linux users, and mostly is fine for users of other Unices because
if something runs on Linux, it most likely runs on (or can run on, or at
least is of some relevance for) all other Unices. If something runs on
Windows, there are good chances that it's of absolutely no interest for
users of Linux or any other Unices. If someone is going to make a site that
announces Open Source (or any other) software for Windows, he better should
do it as far from here as possible -- IMNSHO MSN is the most natural place
for that.
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My comments on three issues
by jeff covey - Dec 19th 1999 00:49:50
Well, I ended up being out of the house much of the day, so my
comments are coming late. Hopefully, that will be better than never.
First, let me comment on the actual topic of the editorial. :)
Is Free Software for Windows a Good Thing(TM)?
I'm of two minds on this.
On the one hand, I tend to think of the work put into Windows free
software projects as wasted effort that could be put to better use
helping to improve completely free systems, for two reasons: First, I
think of it as enabling people in their unhealthy habits; we should be
moving people to GNU/Linux or *BSD, not encouraging their use of
proprietary platforms by giving them better software to run on them.
Secondly, no matter how much care and craft you put into your code,
Windows is still going to blue screen or crash with a GPF in the
middle of running it. You're just cooking a gourmet meal and serving
it as the garnish for a plate full of crap.
On the other hand, I see it filling an advocacy role. I remember
reading someone's argument some time ago (on slashdot, I believe) that
there were three ways people could be moved from Windows to one of the
free OSes. The first was to take them out in the middle of the pond
and throw them out of the boat, then watch them sink more often than
they swam. The second was to not force them into using the
new-to-them system full time with no preparation, but to give them a
dual-boot machine so they could have time to experiment with the new
system while using the old to do their work. The problem with this is
that people find fewer and fewer reasons to ever reboot into the new
system.
The third way was interesting and under-utilized: give them the same
tools under Windows that they'll be using under their new OS. That
way, they get to learn the applications while remaining in the
familiar surroundings instead of trying to deal with everything all at
once. Let the Windows user learn to use the GIMP, bash, and AbiWord
without leaving Windows, and she'll be that much more at ease when she
switches over.
This is actually what I did myself. Before I installed Linux for the
first time, I was already using the NT port of Emacs to do most of my
work. After I started using Linux, I dual-booted for awhile because I
still needed to get work done and wasn't yet comfortable enough with
*NIX to use it full time (and back then, you couldn't just pick up a preinstalled machine with
everything preconfigured and working). I even switched from using
Pegasus Mail as my MUA to using VM (an Emacs mail client) under both
platforms, with my mail folders stored on the vfat partition and
symlinked to their appropriate places on the ext2 side.
So, I'm a prime example of the fact that Windows versions of *NIX tools
can help people make the transition to a reasonable platform.
I'm not a coder, so I have to ask: how much harder is it to write your
program to work on multiple platforms instead of just one? Who wants
to write an editorial on cross-platform development and how to write
easily portable code? :)
freshmeat identity crisis
As to what freshmeat is and should be:
It's an interesting question because I think we all know what it is,
but as soon as we start putting it into words or trying to make
practical decisions related to our understanding of it, it starts
slipping through our fingers. Is it a Linux site? No, there's plenty
of *BSD software on it. Is it a Free Software site? No, we have
plenty of commercial software here. (Though personally, I'm one of
those not interested in such things, and would rather see freshmeat
set up more like Debian, with the software separated and organized
according to its freeness. More about that below.) Is it a place for
linking to and talking about software that's of interest to people in
our community? (We've had requests that we carry palmos software
since so many of our readers have Pilots growing on their hips.)
Perhaps it's enough to look at it as "The software index for the
slashdot generation", a cool code place with strong UNIX and Free
Software tendencies.
freshmeat feature requests
Finally, I feel the need to say just a word about all the suggestions
regarding "My freshmeat" and such.
I spent a few days at thebazaar this week, and I remember Rob Malda
telling
someone, "Whatever suggestion you have regarding moderation or karma
on slashdot, it's already been submitted to me by a dozen other
people, and I've thought of ten other ways of implementing it myself."
You just have to be patient; everything you've said here has been
suggested in the past and considered for the todo list. No need to
bug scoop as though he hasn't already thought about it.
P.S.: To Ron who said:
I am certain that gnu.org doesnt have opensourced win32 software, or
none that I've seen.
See http://www.gnu.org/order/windows.html
:-)
--
vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh'er n trrx.
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Is free software good for Windows?
by Daniel Savard - Dec 19th 1999 00:11:43
I just don't care. The only thing important is: Is free software good for
users?
Another thing, free software is a model. Mr. Stallman may find it the best
one. However, users will always stay the judges. Sometimes, free software
fits and others, it doesn't. It is to be compared to a company, in the
free software model, almost everyone is a shareholder. In the commercial
software model, less people are shareholders. Both are acceptable, why
should you consider a hardware developper is more justified to live from
its work compare to a software developper? In both cases, these guys had
invested time and knowledge to develop something they hope is profitable to
the community. In the case of free software, the developper may thinks it's
better to share its work openely with everyone in order to have it evolves
with the free help of the community. In the case of commercial software,
the developper may prefer to keep control on the product and like to sell
it for living and concentrate on its product with the same goal in mind:
Keep its users happy!
The problems arose when someone thinks its way of life is the best and
decide to build a religion on it. This kind of religious wars may prevent
Linux to penetrate some markets were there is a fit for the product, but
not for the model.
When I come by a one-size-fit-all clothes store, I am almost sure I won't
find anything that will really fit.
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open sourced windows software?
by RC - Dec 18th 1999 23:00:47
My personal feeling is that Windows is already well established so with
that said why does Freshmeat even need to consider promoting opensourced
windows software? Freshmeat has always been an exellent source of software
for Linux and BSD (free,commercial, opensourced, closed etc) so why on
earth should that change now? It's the Linux and BSD's of the world that
need the most help and exposure. Windows is already well known, Windows
already has sites for free windows software, so why should Freshmeat even
consider this as a option at all?
Promoting open sourced Windows software never put Freshmeat on the map to
begin with. Why not expand services for the Linux and BSD communities and
leave the Windows people to tend to their own affairs? This is where you
can do the most good. I am certain that gnu.org doesnt have opensourced
win32 software, or none that I've seen. Why does Freshmeat need to do
this? I find this whole thing completely and utterly annoying to begin
with. Linux and BSD needs all the help they can get. Why promote
something that doesnt need promoting? Cant we have a few web sites that
doesnt have any Windows related material on it? Why is this too much to
ask?
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Just my opinion...
by Kenneth Sanislo - Dec 18th 1999 22:41:49
now, what freshmeat is or isn't I am not sure... but i personally do not
want to start seeing 10,000 crappy VisualBasic programs pop up on here. I
personally would like to think of freshmeat as a collecection of software
that i can actually find usefull... preferably under the GPL or similar
licence, and in a language that is easily ported... I think that freshmeat
should remain a software listing of unix utilities and programs, and
possibly other things such as BeOS apps... but only if the source is
avaliable. I find no use in closed source, or extreamly limited source
applications.... i like my free beer and free speach.
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Freshmeat & Windows Software
by saphar - Dec 18th 1999 21:33:12
I have a couple of opinions on this...
There should be a place where Free and Open source Windows programs
are distributed, but Freshmeat should not be that place. When most of us
think of Freshmeat we think Linux and GNU not Micro$oft. I also believe
that the only way that Microsoft's monopoly can be stopped is to write an
OS or some form of emulator to run MS Software which the only way that will
get done is if more people learn MS code... My point is that open source
Windows programs are a good thing.
I apologize to Billy Worbucks for wanting him to fall... but this is
what i feel should happen.
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Mostly GPL programs
by ulysses - Dec 18th 1999 20:41:22
I hope I get this right ... it all started w/someone wondering what would
happen if there were more Open Source software for windows paltforms.
Now it has deviated all the attetion to what freshmeat is ... so I
guess (and this is MY guess) that the point is being missed.
I believe, and I will make a brief comment on freshmeat, that it is
just a place to find new sofware. What you can notice is that most of it is
open source and for linux, well ... so what ?
Freshmeat is just a place to find software, it doesnt makes a
difference for which platform was written (I hope).
Now going back to the Win world, every piece of software that was
written to run on win platforms if either commercial or shareware. There
are only a FEW things that are free.
Why is that ? I really dont know, and taking a wild guess, it could be
because of the ideology behind win and its patches. I guess that most of
the software programmers for the win environment think that if they had to
pay for, lets say, borland C/C++ why shouldnt people pay for what they made
?
So basically, like the original poster (sorry I cant remember your
name now. (-; said in the first place, if there were a GOOD development
environment, that was free, maybe developers would start writing free
software for win.
Theres another thing, after talking to many Mic. Cert. Eng. *grin*
they dont even know anything about GNU, or the FSF ... and when I tell them
about it they just cant believe it, and they even think that thats dumb.
So, they way i see it (and to summarize), freshmeat is an internet
site wher you can "advertise" your software.
And yes, if there were more free software for the win world it could
even be acceptable for me (-;. PS: please excuse my poor use of english.
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Whether Free/Libre software for a non-Free/Libre OS?
by Starman - Dec 18th 1999 20:02:37
I'd support posting notices of Win32 software, if it was free,
and can be compiled with free tools, uses free .Libs and
works on other platforms, like Linux/BSD, if it cant meet
these standards, then let TuCows list it.
Free software that can be built on an out of the box
w |
